Big Turbo Scott
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- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
Ok, Ive had enough of the POS powermaster. I want manual brakes period! Anyone done this and if so how did it turn out? Thanks in advance
BTS
BTS
Manual brakes
- Thread starter Big Turbo Scott
- Start date
Went to a junk yard, found an old regal with vac brakes for $40. The swap-over is easy. The issue you will run into is the pedal. The PM uses a different location to connect to the master cylinder. You can either get the pedal from the donor car or modify (by someone who can weld well) the existing pedal.
Some of the vendors sell a swap as well, complete with the correct pedal.
It's easy, it's worth it.
Keep the old PM in the attic for future use or resto.
Some of the vendors sell a swap as well, complete with the correct pedal.
It's easy, it's worth it.
Keep the old PM in the attic for future use or resto.
Dan's right the swap is pretty easy. I changed mine over to vacuum brakes several years ago found a 85 Regal in the salvage yard for a donor. Changing out the pedal is the hardest part If I remember right it is a 17mm wrench you will need two.
Wilwood Manual Brakes...
I converted over to Wilwood Manual Brakes. I used their Master Cylinder and Disc Brakes, I also added a Line-Loc at the same time. The brakes work really well, it takes a little pressure, but stop with no problems so far. I purchased a adapter to mount the MC to the firewall, pretty straight forward conversion.
I converted over to Wilwood Manual Brakes. I used their Master Cylinder and Disc Brakes, I also added a Line-Loc at the same time. The brakes work really well, it takes a little pressure, but stop with no problems so far. I purchased a adapter to mount the MC to the firewall, pretty straight forward conversion.
I converted to manual brakes and I haven't looked back.
I used an 85ish s10 manual brake master cylinder, bolted it to the powermaster to firewall adapter.
I got a vacuum brake pedal assembly out of a g body malibu at the junkyard. I popped out the pin and reinstalled it in the upper hole on the pedal arm (presumably there for manual brakes). I had this welded in place.
While I was at the junkyard I grabbed a pushrod from an S10 and a couple of other cars of different lengths. You'll have to rip the crap out of a vacuum booster to get one.
The pedal assembly has nothing to hold the pushrod in place to prevent it from falling out of the manual MC. So I made a small bracket shaped like a U on its side and riveted it in place on the pedal assembly between the two pieces of metal on either side of the path where the rod would go. In this U bracket I drilled a hole just large enough for the rod to pass through. I cut the rod to length and radiused the end to fit into the master cylinder. I then made sure the rod did not touch the U bracket I made through its entire movement.
Since the brake light switch is more or less a stop for my pedal (it keeps the pushrod under a slight tension even when pedal is released so it doesn't fall out of the center of the MC) I had to get two nuts of appropriate size to hold the switch in place as opposed to the metal bracket it normally sits in.
That's about all there is to it. Connect your brake lines, bleed your brakes, and go. The only problem with this conversion is that the powermaster adapter plate doesn't quite hold the master cylinder level with the ground so your fluid levels will be off but they are within range.
The brake pedal feel is great, not too firm. Much better than a lot of old cars I have driven with manual brakes. It's not too much harder than vacuum really and there is an excellent pedal feel.
I used an 85ish s10 manual brake master cylinder, bolted it to the powermaster to firewall adapter.
I got a vacuum brake pedal assembly out of a g body malibu at the junkyard. I popped out the pin and reinstalled it in the upper hole on the pedal arm (presumably there for manual brakes). I had this welded in place.
While I was at the junkyard I grabbed a pushrod from an S10 and a couple of other cars of different lengths. You'll have to rip the crap out of a vacuum booster to get one.
The pedal assembly has nothing to hold the pushrod in place to prevent it from falling out of the manual MC. So I made a small bracket shaped like a U on its side and riveted it in place on the pedal assembly between the two pieces of metal on either side of the path where the rod would go. In this U bracket I drilled a hole just large enough for the rod to pass through. I cut the rod to length and radiused the end to fit into the master cylinder. I then made sure the rod did not touch the U bracket I made through its entire movement.
Since the brake light switch is more or less a stop for my pedal (it keeps the pushrod under a slight tension even when pedal is released so it doesn't fall out of the center of the MC) I had to get two nuts of appropriate size to hold the switch in place as opposed to the metal bracket it normally sits in.
That's about all there is to it. Connect your brake lines, bleed your brakes, and go. The only problem with this conversion is that the powermaster adapter plate doesn't quite hold the master cylinder level with the ground so your fluid levels will be off but they are within range.
The brake pedal feel is great, not too firm. Much better than a lot of old cars I have driven with manual brakes. It's not too much harder than vacuum really and there is an excellent pedal feel.
Big Turbo Scott
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
Thats what Im talking about guys. Thanks for all the info. I like the wilwood idea best. Im so over messing around with the brakes on these cars. Im not in the least concerned over pedal pressure. Good leg workout! Thanks again!
BTS
BTS
Big Turbo Scott
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
Thanks for the great pics! I love those brakes!
I have the same set up as Jevin. I totally eliminated the stock porportioning valve and went with an adjustable type. I also have 4 wheel Wilwood discs. Stops awesome.
This where I got my master and bracket from:
Drag Race Brakes
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
This where I got my master and bracket from:
Drag Race Brakes
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
Scott Atk
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Jevans replied to my PM that he is using the stock prop. valve untouched. I would think he's leaving a lot of stopping power on the table. I've heard of doing it the way Billy T. described as well. I just ordered this for ease of installation as it's a direct fit for the original and it's supposed to be valved correctly for 4 wheel discs.
GM PROPORTIONING VALVES - Performance Online
GM PROPORTIONING VALVES - Performance Online
GM Proportioning Valve...
Scott, Let me know how this Valve works out. I would make this upgrade to my GN this winter...John
Scott, Let me know how this Valve works out. I would make this upgrade to my GN this winter...John
Big Turbo Scott
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
I dont have rear dics yet but its in the budget. The trans is sucking me dry! Anyway, could I use this master cylinder with the drums? If the proportioning valve is an issue, I would not mind removing it and going to an adjustable one. Any thoughts? Thanks!
The Willwood unit in the picture is actually a Chrysler manual Master Cylinder from the 90s used on many of their models. You can google the unit and buy it in either cast or aluminum form parts houses. It is exactly the same and has different bore sizes, with smaller obviously better.
Big Turbo Scott
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
Smaller for brake modulation? I am assuming that it would work for drums then correct?
I used an Aerospace master cylinder from Jegs for like $100. Got a new style brass prop valve and all new brake lines. Also running the Baer 11" rotor kit up front. I kept my stock brake pedal setup and just bought an ajustable brake pushrod kit from Summit. I had to bore out the two holes on the master cylinder mounting flange quite a bit to fit the stock studs sticking out of the firewall, but since it is aluminum, it was easy to bore out the holes.
I haven't had the car on the road yet but from what I've been told I shouldn't have a problem at all stopping this thing on the street. The car doesn't weigh as much as it used to either which helps.
I haven't had the car on the road yet but from what I've been told I shouldn't have a problem at all stopping this thing on the street. The car doesn't weigh as much as it used to either which helps.
I've been able to build around 8-10 lbs. at the track...
TurboJunky
Fire the Federal Gov't
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2002
Does anyone around here sell a complete kit for the swap? I know Master Power Brakes sells one but at $500 I'm saying NO WAY to that.
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