My turbo T dyno...thoughts?

[slimtastic]

so i finally collected myself enough to make a pull or two with the buick and was supprised at what i got for a 15 lbs street tune on 93 octane

specs as follows

big stuff 3 tuned by me
stock heads
mildly built shortblock (i think)
218 cam (i think)
rjc plate
built 200r4 with 3200 stall
57 lbs injectors
ta-66 turbo/ which is wayy to big(i had it from a previous build and the orig turbo was smoking bad)
pte frontmount

372 hp and 384 torque with an unlocked converter
max hp was at 5400 and redline hardcut was at 5500...

15lbs, timing is at 21 degrees with a solid 11.2 afr to redline... any leaner and i loose power. interesting item to note is that im still building power to redline, but im not sure what i can safetly spin the motor to

i cant wait to see what 20 lbs will do, or what switching to e-85 and 1200 cc's will do!

 

[4timesT]

Not bad for low boost.

Engine's still building power past 5400 because of the 218 cam more than likely.

Easiest way to see if the motor's built is to drop the oil pan. It's not that difficult to do and it will show if you have billet caps, aftermarket rod bolts and pistons, etc.

The TA 66 isn't all that big for your combination. It would help if it was spinning faster and working in the 25 psi area, it's more efficient there.

Were you running through the exhaust, if so, what kind is it?

 

[slimtastic]

currently i have not built an exhaust for it. will most likley keep it to a single side exit 3". i doubt ill loose anything in adding an exhaust.

currently im gaining about 12.3 hp per one pound of boost... so im guessing that near 20 lbs id be putting down about 430 hp with the same redline. with 20 lbs being a more effective boost range for the turbo it could be a bit higher

i can get a hold of a boroscope so ill prolly just pull a plug and read off the piston crown part number to see if im forged or what....

assuming i have an all stock bottom with .030 over forged pistons, whats a safe guess for maximum rpm? 5700? 6000?

 

[Slow91z]

My car has a stock fairly fresh shortblock and I've spun it 6K a few times without issue.

 

[bison]

The TA 66 isn't all that big for your combination.

Its not even being used at half its capacity on those pulls and a lot for stock heads. 5800+rpm and 28-30psi will nearly double the hp. Boost will increase the usable rpm range and increase the flash stall and rpm at which peak torque will occur. It will take a lot more injector to get it done though.

 

[bison]

currently i have not built an exhaust for it. will most likley keep it to a single side exit 3". i doubt ill loose anything in adding an exhaust.

currently im gaining about 12.3 hp per one pound of boost.

Are those heads un-ported? You should be gaining about 20hp per psi and probably even more from 20-25psi.

 

[slimtastic]

Are those heads un-ported? You should be gaining about 20hp per psi and probably even more from 20-25psi.

the heads are dead stock minus springs..... of course this is my judgement after removing the doghouse and shining a light down the intake port

it might have a 3-5 angle valve job but im not holding my breath on that hope

its still decent hp from a 4601$ ebay listing lol

when i bought the turbo it was rated at about 690hp from precision on a p trim with a .63 ar housing, pending some back pressure readings im debating on going to a .83 housing. but with me spining to 5300 and hard cut at 5500 i dont know if ill see any gains. but who knows, its only a 200$ housing

but yes i agree, the turbo is overkill but i had it sitting on a shelf... do you think a properly sized turbo for this appication would gain hp for the ammount of boost/timing/afr? or would it just be a wider powerband?

 

[1BADTT]

Are those heads un-ported? You should be gaining about 20hp per psi and probably even more from 20-25psi.

Interesting Bison...a friend of mine made 485whp/532ftq on stock untoched heads, just springs. Wait till I tell him he can make 20hp per psi more from 20-25psi with some porting! :biggrin:

 

[slimtastic]

Interesting Bison...a friend of mine made 485whp/532ftq on stock untoched heads, just springs. Wait till I tell him he can make 20hp per psi more from 20-25psi with some porting! :biggrin:

what was you friend running for boost/fuel/cam to get that number? was this at the wheels?

 

[John Wilde]

We have a local guy that made 527hp to the wheels with a stock computer, long block and old school 66mm wheel. This is with boost in the high 20s.

 

[Otto J]

We have a local guy that made 527hp to the wheels with a stock computer, long block and old school 66mm wheel. This is with boost in the high 20s.

I just did a single pull on Fachie Motions car with ported heads,212 cam and ported intake with an older 66 and made 517 at 21#s a touch on hte fat side.
I am leaving it to him how far we will torture the STOCK bottom end!

 

[John Wilde]

I just did a single pull on Fachie Motions car with ported heads,212 cam and ported intake with an older 66 and made 517 at 21#s a touch on hte fat side.
I am leaving it to him how far we will torture the STOCK bottom end!

Otto,

That makes sense you basically made the same power with less boost and I am guessing very similar CFM. Are you back at work this week?
Ed has heads and a cam on the car now and basically runs similar MPH with less boost than before.

 

[4timesT]

Its not even being used at half its capacity on those pulls and a lot for stock heads. 5800+rpm and 28-30psi will nearly double the hp. Boost will increase the usable rpm range and increase the flash stall and rpm at which peak torque will occur. It will take a lot more injector to get it done though.

I think I said he needs to spin the turbo in the 25 psi range to get it working properly.

IIRC, Te45a (66 mm wheel) has gone 10.495 at 129.84 on an unopened motor at 5300-5400 RPM. Still the fastest a stock unopened motor has ever gone in a TR that wasn't completely gutted...and it's gone faster in gutted cars and hybrids running unopened engines.

If it can do that then it will work with his combo even better because of the 218 cam. The worse the heads flow the bigger the cam you need.

He hasn't spun it to 5800 because he's not sure if the bottom end is built or not.

Don't understand the confusion?

 

[4timesT]

the heads are dead stock minus springs..... of course this is my judgement after removing the doghouse and shining a light down the intake port

it might have a 3-5 angle valve job but im not holding my breath on that hope

its still decent hp from a 4601$ ebay listing lol

when i bought the turbo it was rated at about 690hp from precision on a p trim with a .63 ar housing, pending some back pressure readings im debating on going to a .83 housing. but with me spining to 5300 and hard cut at 5500 i dont know if ill see any gains. but who knows, its only a 200$ housing

but yes i agree, the turbo is overkill but i had it sitting on a shelf... do you think a properly sized turbo for this appication would gain hp for the ammount of boost/timing/afr? or would it just be a wider powerband?

If you're going to stay at 15-20 psi, then a smaller turbo would be better for you.

Or you could just get ALKY, keep the 66 and turn up the boost.

 

[4timesT]

currently i have not built an exhaust for it. will most likley keep it to a single side exit 3". i doubt ill loose anything in adding an exhaust.

currently im gaining about 12.3 hp per one pound of boost... so im guessing that near 20 lbs id be putting down about 430 hp with the same redline. with 20 lbs being a more effective boost range for the turbo it could be a bit higher

i can get a hold of a boroscope so ill prolly just pull a plug and read off the piston crown part number to see if im forged or what....

assuming i have an all stock bottom with .030 over forged pistons, whats a safe guess for maximum rpm? 5700? 6000?

Just make sure you don't use a flowmaster muffler. You'll lose a lot! Been there lol

Since you can get a scope, why don't you stick it up your oil pan drain hole too! :biggrin: I'd drain the oil at night and check in the mornin so as to not get too much oil on the scope. Might be able to see if you have aftermarket rod bolts and caps.

Well 5500-5700 should be safe if the bottom end's stock.

 

[1BADTT]

what was you friend running for boost/fuel/cam to get that number? was this at the wheels?

High 20's for boost with a 67, 208/206??? cam, Haltech EMS & yes this was @ the wheels.

 

[slimtastic]

If you're going to stay at 15-20 psi, then a smaller turbo would be better for you.

Or you could just get ALKY, keep the 66 and turn up the boost.

ill most likely switch over to e85 and use a set of 1200cc injectors i have new in the box... at that point 25+ psi would be possible and reasonably cheap to fill up too.

 

[bison]

The worse the heads flow the bigger the cam you need.

I disagree with this. IMO you need to run higher boost and take gear out to keep the engine where it needs to be to achieve decent mph. More cam will require more flash stall and the power band will narrow.

 

[4timesT]

You can disagree all you want but it's a proven fact that a bigger cam will crutch poor flowing heads.

 

[bison]

You can disagree all you want but it's a proven fact that a bigger cam will crutch poor flowing heads.

Post your proof. Boost will crutch poor flowing heads and improper cam selection/timing much more than any cam change/timing by itself will.