New hotair intakes underway!

[HOTSIX]

IAC Mount

Jeff,

Pics look great - excellent work. It looksa like you really have put together quite a professional kit here. I am so looking fwd to the completion of this project and purchasing one of my own kits after much disappointment with the TM kit etc.

Two things:

You mentioned encountering a lean condition and a rich condition. Is it possible that this is due to the design of the intake itself ? IE the pattern of the airflow once inside? It seems that it is quite similar to the 86-87 style intake (inside anyway) so there has got to be a way around this problem right ?

I have a question about the IAC mount. You have an IAC in the pic. Where will it hook up to the airflow and where does it mount ? I see an opening on the last 90 degree bend of the piping before it enters the TB - is that where ?

 

[typhoon]

Two things:

You mentioned encountering a lean condition and a rich condition. Is it possible that this is due to the design of the intake itself ? IE the pattern of the airflow once inside? It seems that it is quite similar to the 86-87 style intake (inside anyway) so there has got to be a way around this problem right ?

I have a question about the IAC mount. You have an IAC in the pic. Where will it hook up to the airflow and where does it mount ? I see an opening on the last 90 degree bend of the piping before it enters the TB - is that where ?

I had issues with my stock MAF sensor from day one even on the stock motor. Not wanting to spend money on an 86 MAF I converted to the syty ecm. Obviously that tune was not off the shelf and done mostly from scratch. Car runs great and is responding to tune perfectly. I only have it at 10psi so far, but have yet to see it knock. (that is a good thing).

At 10psi, it feels much stronger and smoother than it did stock. I have no complaints and have not had ANY issues with intake itself, has all been external stuff to intake such as motor, etc.

If I never sold a single one, the project was worth it to me. Car runs so good and smooth.

I have made a mount to remotely mount the IAC anywhere you want.

Mine is on the firewall, I will get a pic in next day or two. From there you run a vacuum line to the TB mount on top (where vacuum brake would go on 86/87 setup) The other side can be redirected into the inlet tube after the filter. The setup works great, idle is good, and solves the IAC and Waterneck collision issue. I do provide a blockoff plate for the TB.

I have one setup going out this week, hopefully that person can respond when they get it and get it installed.

From there we plan to make a few more to be ready to ship with the spare intakes I have here. For the non intercooled version, development is done.

Intercooled version and instructions are about 2 weeks away.

We started making the intercooler mounts the other day, and I think it has convinced me to run an intercooler myself now. GRIN.

This setup is slick.

Dyno #'s to come when I get tune dialed in for 15psi run.

 

[cwmccray]

Cool
I have three intakes ready. I cannot wait. I missed the Turbomotion, but I will not miss this intake. I have three engine combos: Hot Air 3.8, Hot Air 4.1 and intercooled 3.8.

Keep up the good work...

Chuck

 

[national84]

I see an opening on the last 90 degree bend of the piping before it enters the TB -

That is the bung we put in for the methanol injection. We planned to run meth and no intercooler on this car, but since the i/c mount looks so nice and works so well, we may do meth and an intercooler.

If you look at the picture of the iac housing you will notice that it is resting on an aluminum mounting block, that is your iac location, you can mount it anywhere you like, and just run a vacuum line to the vacuum side of the tb, and run the other hose anywhere you like, there is actually a nipple on the stock inlet tube which will work nicely.

 

[shaun mccall]

?

how many kits are made so far my intake has been port matched and partly gutted can u still do on mines

 

[national84]

how many kits are made so far my intake has been port matched and partly gutted can u still do on min

If your intake is already ported, it would be best to get yours back to you, that way you get the same port job you a;ready have.

As far as being partially gutted, I would have to see it to make sure what has been done to tell you whether or not I can do anything with what you have.

If you could send me pics, it would help.

 

[typhoon]

Update......the test car is now intercooled...pics to follow.


Looks pretty good, and flat screws up a set of radials at about 6 psi

BTW, this is not Typhoon, its national84 on Typhoon's computer

Oh yeah, and for whatever reason, when you let off the throttle under boost, it has the same compressor surge sound as an 86-87. Now we need to crank it up to a full 15 psi and see what she's got.

 

[typhoon]

Pictures uploaded.

Obviously the pipes are not powder coated yet.

Things to note.

Pass side pipe is a stock 86/87 up pipe. As you can see, the intercooler is being used backwards of the 86 setup.

A big straight neck was welded onto the intercooler replacing the 86 bend.

The drivers side of intercooler is un moddified. Mike and I did discuss you could make that pipe even cleaner should someone want to modify the neck on intercooler, but we have choosen to stay as close as possible to stock layout to aid in future intercooler conversions, etc.

At this point Mike and I are ready to build the intercooled version. As he said, it is on my car right now, and seems to work great. @ 6psi of boost last night, my back tires were hating life.

http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/albums/hotair/abd.sized.jpg

http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/gallery/hotair

Full instructions to come in the next few weeks, as we do a 2nd intercooler install.

We have 4 intakes in the works right now at various stages. CNC mill will be going later today, building more flanges and IAC remote mounts.

Just noticed also, for those wonder about remote IAC in this picture

http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/albums/hotair/abe.sized.jpg

You can see my IAC mounted on the firewall between the master cylinder, and inlet pipe to turbo.

Where you want to mount it is up to you.

 

[HOTSIX]

Outstanding work

Guys - excellent work on the project.

I am enthusiastic AND serious about buying my own. I have a couple questions :

1. The IC mount in the pics - looks like it goes on the pass side to a bolt under the A/C compressor and on DS to a bolt above and to the left of the PS pump. It looks like the bolts are covered with rubber or something. Is there any risk (hard to tell by pics) of the mount bolts contacting any of the belts at all ?

2. Where excatly do the IAC lines hook up to ? Do you have them routed to the 87 TB from the firewall mount location?

3. Chip - can I use my UltraChip w 87 ECM ? I want to stay with the 87 ECM I have in the car....

Before I jump in the pool I want to make sure I have everything I need to know thats all.

How bout another MPG file of it running and stuff - like b4. Maybe even a burnout pic too....

Thanks again guys !!!!

 

[typhoon]

Re: Outstanding work

Guys - excellent work on the project.

I am enthusiastic AND serious about buying my own. I have a couple questions :

1. The IC mount in the pics - looks like it goes on the pass side to a bolt under the A/C compressor and on DS to a bolt above and to the left of the PS pump. It looks like the bolts are covered with rubber or something. Is there any risk (hard to tell by pics) of the mount bolts contacting any of the belts at all ?

You are correct they do mount to bolts for the AC and power steering pump. It became obvious this was a much cleaner way then trying to adapt 86/87 brackets. It was so clean, I have decided to keep my car intercooled.

Clearance is great, only a broken belt could hit the braket. I would guess at closest the belts are about 2" away from the brackets.

2. Where excatly do the IAC lines hook up to ? Do you have them routed to the 87 TB from the firewall mount location?

Obviously the wiring plugs right in.
1 of the vacuum lines goes to the block on top of the throttle body. On my car the 2nd line goes to atmosphere, although I would suggest plugging it into the air inlet pipe. (which I will do when I build my new cold air setup)

3. Chip - can I use my UltraChip w 87 ECM ? I want to stay with the 87 ECM I have in the car....

This setup duplicates the 86/87 so close I don't see why you would have any trouble running that chip. 86/87 ECM should work fine. I went a different route, but you should do what you feel confortable with. You will probably need to adjust fuel pressure a bit.

Before I jump in the pool I want to make sure I have everything I need to know thats all.

How bout another MPG file of it running and stuff - like b4. Maybe even a burnout pic too....

Mike is heading down again tonight to work on some intakes. If it stops raining today, I will get a MPG of a nice big smokey burnout. You must be reading our minds.

I will say this also, I know most people think the big disadvantage of the hotair car is the lack of intercooler, and although that helps I have seen first hand it isn't the weakest link. By far the intake is the big restriction. Add on the intercooler and the car feels like a MUCH different animal.

I also noticed, being my turbo is set at base boost right now (10psi) between running hot air confirguration, and intercooled I didn't lose any boost. Telling me the intercooler is fairly efficient.

 

[fireberd350]

Wow, Impressive guys. I have been following this buildup all along and you guys seem to be taking the right approach...by taking your time and making sure it is done right.

It poses a serious threat to converting my car to 86/7 style. I have some thinking to do. That setup looks pretty impressive. Can't wait to see those dyno and E/T results!

 

[national84]

I am waiting for a response from our #2 intercooled test car, but within 2 weeks, we should have him up and running on the 86-87 ecm. We will know a little more about chipping tendencies once we get his car together.

Like Jeff said though, this thing is now so close to an 86/87 its scary. If you have ever ridden in an i/c car (factory) you are familiar with the compressor slam noise when you let off the throttle, well when we installed the intercooler this weekend, we got a surprise. A noise that had never come from the car before....it sounds just like the 87's . Jeff kept spooling and letting of just to hear the surge. I am confident most 86-87 chips will be close enough.

At this point the adjustments to the 86/87 tune are all speculation, but we have a significant increase in airflow, so as Jeff said FP adjustments may be necessary. AS I have learned in the past year or two on these fi turbo cars, a good tune is the key to great performance...so you may want to consider having a custom chip done for your individual car.

One thing is for certain, I would not try to run this on the 84/85 ecm, it would probably run ok, but there is just not enough support for that ecm. There are limited chips available, and to my knowledge no good scan tool options. From what we experienced with the stock ecm in the early stages of #1 test car, there was horrible tip-on stumble, and various driveability issues. With the ecm we're using and the tuning, the car gets sweeter and faster with each chip modification.

We have discussed the possibility of doing a custom chip for Test car #2, and making the bin file available for down load to those who purchase a kit. More to follow on that.

 

[national84]

IAC relocation picture and explanation

There has been a little confusion about the iac relocation system. Hopefully the really bad paint drawing in this link will help answer your questions. There are two mounting tabs on the billet aluminum block that allow it to be screwed to whatever location you choose. All you will need to do is add vacuum hose to reach whatever vacuum source you choose to use, and send the other vacuum line to atmosphere or a port on your cold air /intake tube. Any location works as long is it is able to draw air from outside the engine on one port, and vacuum behind the TB on the other port


The factory iac block will be unbolted from your TB and bolted to this block, and the wiring is hooked up as stock. A block off plate is provided to re-seal your stock TB. We used stock iac gaskets on both the tb plate and the billet block. If you choose to move the Iac too far from the stock location you may need to lengthen the wires, but we have mounted ours to the firewall, and the stock wires worked just fine.

The billet block comes drilled and tapped ready for install, you will need to get two brass vacuum nipples to fit your hose, and screw them into the block...these are available at any Lowe's Home Depot, etc, etc. Operation is identical to stock, and the appearance is also quite impressive.

Please go easy on the drawing skills

 

[fireberd350]

Is there any issues with mounting the IC backwards? Does that efffect cooling or airflow(outside air, not exhaust/boost airflow) at all? Is there anyway to mount the shroud on it now that its backwards?

Thanks, STeve

 

[typhoon]

Backwards????

I am not sure what you are referring to.

In it's simpliest for the IAC is a controlled vacuum leak. The motor could care less how the air gets there, it just need a certain amount in order to idle.

The computer then controls how much of a vacuum leak to give the engine to get to desired idle speed.

Thats it. Under boost, etc IAC plays no part in operation, it is for idle only.

If air goes through the valve one way or another, makes no difference to engine, computer, etc. It is just a variable size passage.

This IAC thing is simple and won't affect anything. This isn't the first car we have moved to a remote IAC mount.

 

[fireberd350]

Originally posted by typhoon
Pictures uploaded.

Obviously the pipes are not powder coated yet.

Things to note.

Pass side pipe is a stock 86/87 up pipe. As you can see, the intercooler is being used backwards of the 86 setup.

I am straight on the whole IAC thing. I was referring to the IC. It appears as tho it is backwards. When I say that I am just repeating what you said in the previous post.

I assumed you spun the IC 180 degrees because on an 86/7 the air flows in the passenger side of the IC and out the right and it's the opposite on this.

The question on airflow dealt with the spun IC. If it was in fact turned 180 degrees, which I am unsure of, then would the passing airflow from outside still be as effective. In other words is the intercooler designed so that the airflow must go one direction to cool most effieciently? You understand what I am saying?

 

[national84]

I assumed you spun the IC 180 degrees because on an 86/7 the air flows in the passenger side of the IC and out the right and it's the opposite on this.

The i/c is mounted exactly as stock. This way you can use the stock i/c shroud...the screw holes are all in the same place.

What we did was cut the turbo inlet neck off, and use it as the TB inlet neck, so, the air is flowing in the opposite direction, but the i/c is mounted as stock.

The direction of air flow has no effect on the intercooler, either way you look at it, its just 2 tanks and cooling tubes.

The turbo inlet is extremely small to fit the outlet size of the turbo, thats why we cut it off and went with the 2.5 tube, its a perfect match for the tb. As mentioned in an earlier post, there has been no change in boost pressures or spool since the i/c has been added, therefore we are running a relatively efficient set-up. In fact, the removal of the restrictive neck is similar to the Duttweiller mod that improves the 86-87 intercoolers, so its better than stock.

 

[typhoon]

Oops my bad. IC IAC, guess the smoke from the burnouts this weekend is still in my system.

Of course my testing pad is the parking lot at work, had several guys this morning ask me if I was here this weekend.

I just smile!

 

[fireberd350]

That answers my questions. Looking at it now with a picture of an 86/7 engine next to it I see what you did with the cutting.

Thanks. Clear that head up and next time get some movies!!

 

[national84]

Too much rain for burnouts tonight, but maybe he'll get some shots of the 60+ foot long set of black marks.....or sets of black marks we left. Let me just say that it is like when a stock car at 10 psi hits second, and continues to boil the hides. Stopping only to avoid the end of the parking lot.