Rear Downforce Wing

DonWG said:
To take full advantage of ground effects, the bottom of the car would need to be within 3-6 inches off the ground. Deminishing returns as the car height is increased. Unless we're talking about a full tube chassis setup, that clearance is not very practical with a stock frame and OEM rear four link configuration. In today's economy, I'm not looking to build a Pro stock or Pro mod chassis. I want to see what I can get out of this setup. It might become powerful knowledge for others that can't afford massive chassis modifications.
Even with ground effects as part of the equation, a rear wing is going to contribute to a large percentage of the total downforce that can be created, especially in the rear. A rear wing cannot be ignored, whether ground effects is used, or not.
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Exactly my point. I went 157 and I'm the most stock suspension street car in my class. I'm making drastic suspension changes now but I have my sites on 4.50's at 165+

Nothing more than a lower ride height on a 28 inch tire, frame notch and mini tub offered great stability at 150mph. Your at 126 and having issues. I still think your better off focusing on suspension and ride height.
 
Dusty Bradford said:
Exactly my point. I went 157 and I'm the most stock suspension street car in my class. I'm making drastic suspension changes now but I have my sites on 4.50's at 165+

Nothing more than a lower ride height on a 28 inch tire, frame notch and mini tub offered great stability at 150mph. Your at 126 and having issues. I still think your better off focusing on suspension and ride height.
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I wouldn't say 'stability' is the problem. Traction, on the other hand, definitely is. When I make it through a run where the tires stick, the ride is great. The car is controllable. Nothing out of control about it.
The car has been to 157+ mph in the quarter, and no 'stability' problem. Not even a traction problem down track on a well prepped track. I'm just curious as to whether a wing can make a difference. That's all. Another one of my experiments. Who knows. Maybe I'll discover something new about our G bodies.
 
Thanks for posting that Donnie. I just watched from 2.23 on your run for the last 10 minutes, and you need to look at it again. Near the end of the run the rear tires are smoking but not evenly. They're smoking on the (from the back) left side of the tires. Do a "wet patch" test on the rears and I'm gonna say scale the damn car finally! I'll almost bet you that the LR is heavier than you think it is and that's one of the problems you're having.
 
Charlie, I didn't see any smoke on the top end in the first run. Too much heat distortion in the video for me to really tell. In the second video, the engine was lean surging from the 1,000 ft. mark on passed the finish line. Also, the engine has been smoking out of the exhaust at the end of the run and certainly on decel for awhile now. She needs rings. What timemark are you seeing this smoke?
 
DonWG said:
I wouldn't say 'stability' is the problem. Traction, on the other hand, definitely is. When I make it through a run where the tires stick, the ride is great. The car is controllable. Nothing out of control about it.
The car has been to 157+ mph in the quarter, and no 'stability' problem. Not even a traction problem down track on a well prepped track. I'm just curious as to whether a wing can make a difference. That's all. Another one of my experiments. Who knows. Maybe I'll discover something new about our G bodies.
Click to expand...

I assume stability because that's what the wings on these cars are for.

I can run 130mph to the 1/8th on a dirt road without traction issues which goes back to it being a suspension issue, not a downforce issue. Put 50lbs in the trunk and see if it helps.
 
Dusty Bradford said:
I assume stability because that's what the wings on these cars are for.

I can run 130mph to the 1/8th on a dirt road without traction issues which goes back to it being a suspension issue, not a downforce issue. Put 50lbs in the trunk and see if it helps.
Click to expand...
Are you also assuming that I'm considering installing a Pro stock style drag wing?

I have never seen anyone install a true downforce wing on these cars. I'm considering a downforce of hundreds of pounds. Not just 50.
 
DonWG said:
Charlie, I didn't see any smoke on the top end in the first run. Too much heat distortion in the video for me to really tell. In the second video, the engine was lean surging from the 1,000 ft. mark on passed the finish line. Also, the engine has been smoking out of the exhaust at the end of the run and certainly on decel for awhile now. She needs rings. What timemark are you seeing this smoke?
Click to expand...

Starts around the 2.38 mark Donnie. It could be the exhaust but it's on both sides. Inside on the right and out side on the left. You can even see the tires leaving marks on the track if you look carefully.
 
charlief1 said:
Starts around the 2.38 mark Donnie. It could be the exhaust but it's on both sides. Inside on the right and out side on the left. You can even see the tires leaving marks on the track if you look carefully.
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I see the marks, but I still don't see anything more than the heat distortion off the track. And, I certainly don't see any instability. Unless,... I don't know what instability looks like.
 
DonWG said:
Are you also assuming that I'm considering installing a Pro stock style drag wing?

I have never seen anyone install a true downforce wing on these cars. I'm considering a downforce of hundreds of pounds. Not just 50.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid to ask now:D I'm picturing a top fuel wing 4 feet above the trunk lid since you mentioned it.
 
DonWG said:
I see the marks, but I still don't see anything more than the heat distortion off the track. And, I certainly don't see any instability. Unless,... I don't know what instability looks like.
Click to expand...

Not instability Donnie, but loss of traction on only one side of the tire. I think most of you blowing the tires off is because you have a bent frame. The QA1 set up works well but you really need to address the frame issue. It looks like the twist in it is causing most of the traction issues you've been having.:smile:

Dusty Bradford said:
I'm from Alabama. That's all we have out here......we race from the mailbox to the trailer park;)
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LOL I'm in Texas and lived in Tennessee for 10 years Dusty. I know about the Dukes of hazzard driving we do here and there so I know what you mean.:biggrin:
 
charlief1 said:
Not instability Donnie, but loss of traction on only one side of the tire. I think most of you blowing the tires off is because you have a bent frame. The QA1 set up works well but you really need to address the frame issue. It looks like the twist in it is causing most of the traction issues you've been having.:smile:
Click to expand...
Don't judge the car by that first pass. I have never had a launch like that at my home track. I had to dial things way back to get traction during that weekend. Even the locals of that track were complaining about the launch pad that weekend.
It doesn't help when you send a jet car down the track either, coating the track with kerosene.
 
The basic profile for the wing mounts is done. I've got to cut them out of aluminum and mount them to the trunk lid.
Time to start studying wing profiles. Like I stated earlier, I plan on starting with a 2 element wing.
After I have the wing mounts attached to the car, I'll be doing some experimenting with stringers to try and come up with some airstream data.
 
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