Running mid-low 12's reliably...

[MR.BLONDE]

Hey guys I have been lurking here for awhile now and decided to become a member today. I have either a 87 GN or Regal T-Type in my near future and had a couple basic questions. First off I tried to search and couldn't find what I needed.

I need to know what I will need to do (motor/turbo/tranny/rearend/ECU) to run mid to low 12's reliably (daily driver)?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[scottyb]

Look at recipe's on gnttype.org.

 

[TRENT THOMPSON]

a chip, some tires, some race gas, and some boost

 

[Lee_Burough]

I'd give this one some serious attention....

http://www.iland.net/~kpompe/buickfs.html

 

[MR.BLONDE]

very nice website...

Anyone have a combo they particularly favor to get into the mid-12's?

Also, I tried to find a website on Duttweiler parts and couldn't find one...anyone have a link?

 

[Mr URL]

http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/12sec.html

 

[Red Regal T]

Forget about the racegas for your "daily driver" unless you want to live in the poor house. Hook up the ALCOHOL INJECTION !!

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by MR.BLONDE
I need to know what I will need to do (motor/turbo/tranny/rearend/ECU) to run mid to low 12's reliably (daily driver)?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Motor - Stock, no mods necessary

Turbo - Stock with porting of the turbo elbow and manufacture of an adjustable wastegate (about $4 if you do it yourself)

Tranny-Stock, but its a good idea to have it serviced and adjusted by a professional and have a shift improver kit installed.

Rearend-Stock with right side airbag in the spring, simple brake mods for higher boost launch (S10 pickup wheel cylinders, 4 long shoes)

ECU-Adjustable fuel pressure regulator will help with tuning.

Other things needed:
Good fuel pump like a Walbro 340
Scan tool like Turbolink, direct scan, or a scanmaster
Boost gage
A free flowing exhaust or a dump
K&N cone airfilter or equivalent
Sticky tires like drag radials
a good race chip like a Thrasher 108 with TCC lockup
Race gas or a race gas mix.

With the above you are pretty much guaranteed mid to low 12's once the car is tuned out (assuming the car is a factory positraction car) Don't worry too much about race gas...it goes a long ways if you are like me and pump it out after running at the track. Not having the ability to run 118 mph everyday on the street is why I still have a drivers license.

Check my signature for a timeline of performance achieved vs. mods done starting with a relatively stock (slower than stock, actually) car .

 

[MR.BLONDE]

Great ideas guys except one thing...I don't want to use race gas. 93 Octane and thats it

 

[1badTTA]

OK, look at the MPH in my sig, the above recipe (mostly stock parts) will get you there if you either use racegas or alcohol or propane injection.

 

[blackbuick87]

Drag radials, alky, Thrasher 100, duttweiler neck, a good exhaust and ported heads will get you there for sure

 

[salvageV6]

Big difference between 93 and race gas.

Time to build an 11 sec. combo to run those 12's.

Alky. is a must.

$$$ break out the check book.

V4, injectors, bigger turbo, 94 gas.... etc.

 

[MR.BLONDE]

So salvage are you saying its not reasonable to build a mid 12 sec GN/Regal that runs on 93 pump gas?

You guys are the pros so I am all ears. Tell me what this combo would net me:

stock modified turbo, stock intercooler, good pump gas chip, good cam, headwork, fuel pump, Duttweiler neck, Art Carr shift kit, a good torque converter, K&N, Scanmaster, and sticky tires..

Also where can I see a range of Duttweiler parts?

 

[scottyb]

Originally posted by MR.BLONDE
So salvage are you saying its not reasonable to build a mid 12 sec GN/Regal that runs on 93 pump gas?

You guys are the pros so I am all ears. Tell me what this combo would net me:

stock modified turbo, stock intercooler, good pump gas chip, good cam, headwork, fuel pump, Duttweiler neck, Art Carr shift kit, a good torque converter, K&N, Scanmaster, and sticky tires..

Also where can I see a range of Duttweiler parts?

Unless you REALLY spend a ton of money on the "good stuff", you're gonna need octane to run mid 12's all day.

So, if you want to save money (and run the combo you propose)and your car is a daily driver, the best bang is alcohol injection.

 

[slowGN]

Here is how I ran 12 teens reliably and on pump gas.
motor stock
turbo te44
ic cas v4
injectiors 42.5
chip MM street chip
th downpipe and dual exhaust.
all the basic stuff fuel pump and such
mt 26" slicks

run 12 teens all night long at 112-113 mph on 20psi boost and alky injection

HTH
Chris
slowGN

 

[KEVINS]

Originally posted by MR.BLONDE
So salvage are you saying its not reasonable to build a mid 12 sec GN/Regal that runs on 93 pump gas?

Pretty much. The turbo heats up the air so much that it causes detonation very easy so either less boost (which wont make enough power) or more octane so more boost can be used or alchy injection to help cool things off.

You can also build a race combo (big turbo, big IC, stall converter, etc) and run very low boost on street gas but I don't think it would be practicle or fun to drive..

ks

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by MR.BLONDE
So salvage are you saying its not reasonable to build a mid 12 sec GN/Regal that runs on 93 pump gas?

You guys are the pros so I am all ears. Tell me what this combo would net me:

stock modified turbo, stock intercooler, good pump gas chip, good cam, headwork, fuel pump, Duttweiler neck, Art Carr shift kit, a good torque converter, K&N, Scanmaster, and sticky tires..

Also where can I see a range of Duttweiler parts?

If by "headwork" you mean ported and polished big valve champions, you're going to need more injector and then, you'll be able to approach mid 12's on straight 93 with this combo. or you can save $1000+ and buy some race gas and run low 12's with the stock untouched heads and cam.

Duttweiler necks are available from Kirbans. There really aren't any other "duttweiler parts" that are applicable to you combo.

If you want to run straight 93 octane 100% of the time, don't buy a T-R. It's just that simple.

 

[salvageV6]

It can be done rather easily just costs more than slicks, race gas and a race chip with adjustable wastegate actuator, free mods. etc.

I can run 12's on the street but it cost about 5K to do it. Not complaining either since all my add on parts are still worth a decent amount of money.

Alky., bigger turbo perhaps such as a 44, drag radials, suspension tweeks, fuel mods., decent injectors, throttle body mods. with power plate. Buy upgraded parts when something fails or is worn out on the car always a good policy.

Good adjustability of alky., chip parameters etc. will do it.

Throwing out numbers is easy until you actually test and tune.

I went racing once and I am very happy with what I have accomplished. My car should be about a 1/2 to 3/4 second faster but not with me driving.

I like racing in street trim only one tune to set up and work on.

12's is all about launching properly and sticking when you are trying to do it with mostly stock stuff.

These cars are easy to build up and fun to play with usually.

You must have a plan first to do it. Glad you mentioned the pump gas it is important.

 

[J Banning]

With my old combo I ran 12.51 @ 107mph on 94 Sunoco, full exhaust, and street tires (BFG comp TA's). This was with a 1.74 60'.

- Stock motor & heads.
- Stock IC w/ported inlet.
- Blue Tops.
- Thrasher 92 street chip.
- PTE51 turbo w/.63 housing.
- Single disc Vigilante convertor (107mph unlocked, 109 locked).
- 3" ATR DP w/external gate.
- Some sort of aftermarket in-tank pump (T/A maybe).

Hope this helps.
-Banning.

 

[TRENT THOMPSON]

everybody has been making this way too hard