The Only 3300 lb. Buick V6 in the 8s using...

[Street Lethal]

Street Lethal. Why don't you post up some of the links you've been exploring on the subject of pressure pulse tuning. I, for one, am always eager to explore....

This was an interesting read....

http://www.challengers101.com/IntakeTuning.html

 

[Street Lethal]

N/A and supercharged applications are obviously different from turbo applications when you're talking about exhaust systems before the turbo. So the answer is no, you have not tried it....

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, as exhaust tuning is nothing new, and it applies to either case. Would be the first to admit that I have not attempted "extracting exhaust" in turbo applications, but this the reason why I am here learning about Don's accomplishments with his turbo V6. I now see your problem though Fry, you just aren't willing to absorb what your reading, because if you paid attention you would have realized that. Instead, you are bent on trying to get your parroted points across...

Really? What trans are you running, what will your launch and shift RPM be? At what RPM would you run it through the lights?

Yes...

4l80...

3500-RPM...

Obviously not decided yet, needs to be tuned, and I didn't pick a cam yet. You should know this, no...?

Can give you a guesstimate, but won't know until after my first pass...

I'm asking this because instead of wasting time with fancy headers, you could be looking at things that actually matter when trying to make a given combination go as quick as possible. Making the "power band" as wide as possible isn't the best way if that's what you're trying to do....

Fry, I am building a street car that will be driven to the track, run the numbers, then driven back to my garage. This "short power band" your referring to are for the high stall behemoth's that get unloaded, then reloaded in the pits when finished. That is not what I am building, and rate of acceleration more than applies with my application...

The wastegate is not relevant in an application where a drag car is properly set up to take as much as the blower will put out and and get down the track in the limited RPM that the car runs in. In this application you'd think you would have a better chance of being correct, but you're not....

Opinionated speculation, you have not proven anything. Prove it factually...

There are plenty of 7 second small block cars out there that WILL slow down when adding a big F3 over an F2....

Show me one, before and after...

As I said in my previous post on this topic, it's due to a number of things, rotating mass being one of them. Your great wastegate idea doesn't seem to take into consideration the amount of power it takes to turn a large blower, which is a lot....

Oh my goodness, are you serious? Exactly how much more resistance do you think applies there...?

 

[Street Lethal]

Fry, had to look around, but this was the only documented supercharger w/wastegate done that I know of, and it was put together by the Turbo People. The owner of the car used to post on the Turbo Forums awhile back, but not sure what happened with the car. Lot of guys took it to the next step, and the results were staggering at the track and on the dyno. Not sure if the video's are still on streefire, but I'll take a look when I get home from work. Centrifugal superchargers w/wastegates is nothing new...

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.c...l_supercharger_wastegate_install/viewall.html

 

[Fryguy]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, as exhaust tuning is nothing new, and it applies to either case. Would be the first to admit that I have not attempted "extracting exhaust" in turbo applications, but this the reason why I am here learning about Don's accomplishments with his turbo V6. I now see your problem though Fry, you just aren't willing to absorb what your reading, because if you paid attention you would have realized that. Instead, you are bent on trying to get your parroted points across...

What does parroted points mean? I do this stuff and you READ about doing it. That's why you're arguing with me. If you had ever tried some of this stuff, you would realize how incredibly stupid you would be to bother with getting rid of your headers and building new ones, like you said in your post. I love it when guys like you actually come to the track, it's a great humbling experience for them LOL. At least you will always have some good excuses.

Fry, I am building a street car that will be driven to the track, run the numbers, then driven back to my garage. This "short power band" your referring to are for the high stall behemoth's that get unloaded, then reloaded in the pits when finished. That is not what I am building, and rate of acceleration more than applies with my application...

Again, you're talking as if you're someone who has never run a fast turbo street/strip car. I could drive my car anywhere last time I had it out, even though it was optimized for the track. If you're trying to go fast, there are things that matter and things that don't matter much, it's that simple. Primary length on a turbo car doesn't seem to matter enough to worry about, period.

Opinionated speculation, you have not proven anything. Prove it factually...
Show me one, before and after...
Oh my goodness, are you serious? Exactly how much more resistance do you think applies there...?

What exactly do you want to see? Apparently anything you read on the Internet is true unless I'm the one that types it LOL. You are talking about theory you read somewhere and I'm talking about cars that I know of that have been there and done that. Do you want to see a picture of one of the cars??

Here are the previous posts in reply to what you said before:

Also there is a huge difference in rotating mass with superchargers, and especially with the big prochargers. I know of two different cars that were quicker with the F2 than the F3 at similar boost levels....some of the reason may be rotating mass, some of the reason may be the compressor itself. Both were small block cars....a large big block probably would have acted differently.

I see the same thing here, very often. The compressor wheels are huge. An F3 can be anywhere from 123mm to 139mm. A small block will run faster with a 123mm than it will with a 139mm because of parasitic drag. The 139mm is just too big for a small block. Also the larger the engine, the more hp the car will put to the tires with the same 139mm. A 565ci with a 139 can not compete with a 706ci with a 139. That's why it's so hard to keep the blower rules fair for everyone. They aren't like a turbo engine where a small block and big block can make near the same power with 88's.

But again, I'm sure your theory that you read about on the Internet is better than racers trying it.

 

[Alky V6]

Wow. And some of you guys were piling on me for 'bragging'. Someone is sure riding a high horse there. I love it!

 

[Fryguy]

Wow. And some of you guys were piling on me for 'bragging'. Someone is sure riding a high horse there. I love it!

I didn't (and never will) make a thread bragging about my car and how it runs, like you did.

I haven't mentioned my own cars at all here, except to mention that I ran GT40 heads in the mid 90s.

I don't claim to be an expert, I just know what I have tried and what's worked on my own cars. If someone who has never tried it wants to argue the point because of what he read on the Internet, I will be happy to debate that if I'm stuck in front of the PC anyhow.

 

[Alky V6]

But again, I'm sure your theory that you read about on the Internet is better than racers trying it.

I like this quote. Especially the 'racers trying it' part.

 

[Fryguy]

I like this quote. Especially the 'racers trying it' part.

Me too!

 

[Alky V6]

I didn't (and never will) make a thread bragging about my car and how it runs, like you did.

I haven't mentioned my own cars at all here, except to mention that I ran GT40 heads in the mid 90s.

I don't claim to be an expert, I just know what I have tried and what's worked on my own cars. If someone who has never tried it wants to argue the point because of what he read on the Internet, I will be happy to debate that if I'm stuck in front of the PC anyhow.

No. You won't start a thread of your own and brag about yourself. You'll just do it on someone elses!!! Bwa Ha Haaa! What a smuck!
No, you haven't shown us any of your cars, yet. But you'd like to, wouldn't you? :wink:

So you're arguing with me because you've gone out and tried what I've done and found it to be useless. Did I get that right?

 

[Street Lethal]

If someone who has never tried it wants to argue the point because of what he read on the Internet, I will be happy to debate that if I'm stuck in front of the PC anyhow...

Another assumption though, Fry, and that is your mistake. You don't even know me, so how can you come to the conclusion that I have never tried it, and am just an Internet racer lol? Again, I already admitted to not using exhaust extraction with turbo applications, but I am not new to the concept. It is nothing new. You think your the only one that has had past projects...?

 

[Alky V6]

Stupid 8 second car. Stupid 8 second car.

 

[Fryguy]

No. You won't start a thread of your own and brag about yourself. You'll just do it on someone elses!!! Bwa Ha Haaa! What a smuck!

No, never started a thread of my own on here about anyone's car.

No, you haven't shown us any of your cars, yet. But you'd like to, wouldn't you? :wink:

No interest in that at all. There's no point since you're too far away to end up in the lane next to me.

So you're arguing with me because you've gone out and tried what I've done and found it to be useless. Did I get that right?

I'm arguing with you because you like to brag about your car and it's a stone. I'm arguing with you because you're trying to impress us with your "pressure pulse tuning" and your simulator work that is apparently not working out very well for you.

Another assumption though, Fry, and that is your mistake. You don't even know me, so how can you come to the conclusion that I have never tried it, and am just an Internet racer lol? Again, I already admitted to not using exhaust extraction with turbo applications, but I am not new to the concept. It is nothing new. You think your the only one that has had past projects...?

You still don't get it. I'm saying you're wrong, I'm trying to tell you it's not worth redoing those headers because front what I've seen it doesn't matter. That's all, no more no less. It's obvious you haven't played with much turbo stuff because you'd already know this is all I'm saying.

Stupid 8 second car. Stupid 8 second car.

I totally agree. Most 12 second cars make way more sense.

 

[Alky V6]

Do you want to see a picture of one of the cars??

But again, I'm sure your theory that you read about on the Internet is better than racers trying it.

Go ahead and admit it. You're just dying to show us one of your cars. Maybe all of them. Just do it and get it over with.

Unlike yourself, I actually bothered to try out some of that theory. The only 3300 lb Buick V6 deep in the 8s using 1.83, 1.5 valves.

Stupid 8 second car.

 

[Street Lethal]

You still don't get it. I'm saying you're wrong...

What does you telling me, or anyone else here, that they are wrong have to do with anything? Who exactly are you, anyway? None of your analogies, or theories make any sense to the intellect. Your mentality is, shove in big block, high stall, limited RPM window, then apply foot to throttle. How very prehistoric of you. Talk to me about value meals because that is what you get, not about exhaust extraction because you are lost. You can sit there and say over and over again that exhaust tuning isn't worth it, whereas some feel that it is, and Don is obviously doing something that is right. What have you done here, other than speculate? "Other people could run just as fast with small valves" (but they didn't), "a larger supercharger will slow down one with a smaller supercharger" (but you haven't provided anything to back up such a flawed understanding). I honestly tried appealing to your intellect this whole entire time, but it has turned into feeding the trolls. Won't do it anymore...

[/done]

 

[Fryguy]

Go ahead and admit it. You're just dying to show us one of your cars. Maybe all of them. Just do it and get it over with.

I know you're slow so I'll explain. The pictures of the cars I referenced were NOT of my car, they were of PROCHARGER equipped cars I know of which had tried the larger blowers with poor results. It was a joke because he was asking for proof and I don't know what I can provide to document a past experiment by someone that I know.

Unlike you, I have no need to brag and even if I did I don't have anything to brag about.

 

[Fryguy]

What does you telling me, or anyone else here, that they are wrong have to do with anything? Who exactly are you, anyway? None of your analogies, or theories make any sense to the intellect. Your mentality is, shove in big block, high stall, limited RPM window, then apply foot to throttle. How very prehistoric of you. Talk to me about value meals because that is what you get, not about exhaust extraction because you are lost. You can sit there and say over and over again that exhaust tuning isn't worth it, whereas some feel that it is, and Don is obviously doing something that is right. What have you done here, other than speculate? "Other people could run just as fast with small valves" (but they didn't), "a larger supercharger will slow down one with a smaller supercharger" (but you haven't provided anything to back up such a flawed understanding). I honestly tried appealing to your intellect this whole entire time, but it has turned into feeding the trolls. Won't do it anymore...

[/done]

LOL! That's all I can reply to this with!

 

[Alky V6]

I know you're slow so I'll explain. The pictures of the cars I referenced were NOT of my car, they were of PROCHARGER equipped cars I know of which had tried the larger blowers with poor results. It was a joke because he was asking for proof and I don't know what I can provide to document a past experiment by someone that I know.

Unlike you, I have no need to brag and even if I did I don't have anything to brag about.

So you're admitting that you don't actually have any personal experience with anything you've been talking about. Am I the only one that finds this troll just a little bit on the wierd side?

So you just pretend brag sometimes on other peoples threads. Wow. I think we have a weiner troll here. I've heard they're rare, but it's obvious they do exist. Facinating. Utterly facinating.
Quick! We should do some experimenting before it goes away.

 

[Fryguy]

So you're admitting that you don't actually have any personal experience with anything you've been talking about. Am I the only one that finds this troll just a little bit on the wierd side?

So you just pretend brag sometimes on other peoples threads. Wow. I think we have a weiner here.

I do have personal experience with what we're discussing. And there's nowhere in this thread that I have bragged about anything.

 

[lazaris]

Being that this has gotten off topic I would like to point out something which the original posted has commented on several times. It was mentioned repeatedly that the size of the valves on the cylinder heads are a hindrance on this application and power level. Well if you look at the exhaust valves at 1.5" x6 compared to the area on the inlet and outlet of the turbine housing then the area of restriction will still always be the inlet and outlet of the exh housing. Now add to that, a turbine wheel placed in that same area and the restriction is larger. Same can be said of the intake valves and TB. Let alone a smaller 220ci engine. I know Dusty has brought up the turbine side numerous times but I dont know if anyone was really listening.

 

[its2qik]

This thread is moving so fast today I can't keep up with it! Someone must of pulse-tuned it and hit it with a 400 shot!