Why am I getting Knock?!

[kTrainHurricane]

Here is the basic overview of the recent "problems" i've had with the car/problems that I just found out about:
-cracked driver's side header (fixed it today)
-TPS is shot
-lockup converter is not locking up (was told it could very possibly be due to the bad TPS)
-loud "clunk"...LOUD "clunk" when shifting into Drive, but ONLY when the engine is warm (u-joints maybe?)
-car is about due for an oil change
-Knock (13.6*, 19.9* specifically, on the 2 occasions i got on it)...

I spoke with one of the local shop owner's down here in South Florida today, and he basically said fix as much as i can on my own. I took the header off today and got that all welded up, but still hear an exhaust leak - however, it sounds to be coming from the actually muffler area not the header which i can live with, because i plan on changing out the exhaust (or running open DP ) soon anyway.
The shop owner, Laz, for those of you that know him, told me, like everyone else did, that you cant really tell what the problem is until AT LEAST the header was fixed and the TPS is replaced. However, he did say that a way to tell if the knock is "bad" or not (as opposed to bad motor or tranny mounts, DP hitting something, etc.) is to put some race gas in the car. He said that if i do, once it mixes in with the 93, get on it and check the Scanmaster. If knock went away, he said, (basically) something engine-related is wrong. If knock was still there, then it is one of the other reasons (mounts, DP...).
Well, i still got knock but am not yet convinced its just one of those other things. I had less than 1/4 tank of 93 and put in 5 gallons of 110. Drove around for somewhere between 1-2 miles, and started to smell it. I just got on it from a stop, and knock retard went up to around 19.7*. But, a 96-or so GT Stang was runnin up from behind me and i got on it right when he was next to me (around 45mph) and knock "only" went up to 11.0*. My thinking was that there is more engine jerk going from 0-floored as opposed to already at 2k-3k rpms, and therefore the cause WOULD be bad mounts or w/e. But, i'd like a 2nd opinion...

 

[onefastcar]

where was the head cracked at, why not just pick up a used one and have the head rebuilt there is nothing special about them, could have possible other issues like bent valve stem, warped or was this head looked at closely. What also caused this crack and if you have tranny issues this could cause possible knock issues.

 

[87NAT]

How much boost are you running?

To determine "real" knock you need to make a WOT pass in third gear, with no tire spin, when the motor is under load. Any first or second gear knock with tire spin will give false knock.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

How much boost are you running?

To determine "real" knock you need to make a WOT pass in third gear, with no tire spin, when the motor is under load. Any first or second gear knock with tire spin will give false knock.

really? never heard that before. I am only running 15lbs which i was told is stock. Some people HAVE mentioned, however, that i may need a bigger intercooler for my turbo, but i dont believe this is what is causing my knock. On the "other" forum i was told by some of the gurus to stop doing these "tests" and just take it to the local go-to-guy down here because i am gonna mess the car up worse. IDK WHAT TO DO!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

"On the "other" forum i was told by some of the gurus to stop doing these "tests" and just take it to the local go-to-guy down here because i am gonna mess the car up worse. IDK WHAT TO DO!"

U didn't like the answers you got on TBS.com, so U come here and expect someone to agree w/ your logic??
Running that car w/ the TPS messed up, is a good way to experience what you were told on TBS....

 

[kTrainHurricane]

"On the "other" forum i was told by some of the gurus to stop doing these "tests" and just take it to the local go-to-guy down here because i am gonna mess the car up worse. IDK WHAT TO DO!"

U didn't like the answers you got on TBS.com, so U come here and expect someone to agree w/ your logic??
Running that car w/ the TPS messed up, is a good way to experience what you were told on TBS....

i actually posted on THIS site first...so i didnt "come crying over here" hoping to get a different answer. I'm simply trying to give as much information on everything going on with the situation as possible. Not everyone "here" is also over "there", so i was just sharing what i was told by EVERYONE, in hopes of a better understanding by those of you who know more than me.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

and I personally dont have any "logic" - those "tests" i did were suggested to me by the local Turbo Buick...guy...down here that was HIGHLY recommended by EVERYONE, and not just those in the area. I just figured he would know over me what to do and it would be safe to trust him.

 

[rb68rr]

What is the timing set at in the TT chip?

 

[Junior Samples]

Whats your scanmaster or logger show when you tromp on it? as far as knock retard? does it climb steady or jump?


And yes your IC is way to small as mentioned in the other forum...

For that monster turbo you have, You need an RJC Mega Cooler located at RJC Racing the leaders in inovative Buick performance They are very affordable and you also might need some LED tail lights from Welcome to GNSPerformance.com and while there, buy a shirt because your car will telepathically pick up on the fact that you really love your car and you value the info you get here and the knock just may go away

Oh just thought of your problem so I came back on edit mode:

its your Injectors...you need them dyno'd and blueprinted with complete flow testing...you can contact Chuck Leeper for that, he only charges $50.00 per injector and they will be better then new.

 

[jdpolzin]

I'll jump in on this one..... A few questions for you:


1. While you are experiencing knock, does it slowly go up in numbers or straight to the high numbers?

2. What are your O2's while experiencing knock?

3. What is your fuel pressure set at?

4. What type of chip do you have? Is is adjustable WOT, 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc?

5. What gears are you in while knocking?

6. Have you tried to fatten up the tune?

7. What is done to your fuel system? Pump? Hotwire?

8. Is your alternator known good?

9. Have you checked all of your injectors to make sure they are "opening" while the motor is idling?

10. Have you changed you fuel filter recentlty?

 

[kTrainHurricane]

So i pretty much fixed up all the problems with the car over the past few days, and ran my "test" again. The problems fixed are as follows:
-welded cracked header
-installed new TPS and set it to .44 idle, 4.58 WOT
-oil change (Royal Purple 10w30)
-110 octane race gas in the tank
Therefore, the only other things are the U-joints (still dont know if that's what causes the "clunk", but plan to replace them anyway) and the lockupconverter, however i havent tested it since replacing the TPS and a few people told me they could relate to each other.

Anyway, i got on it today, and still had knock show up on the Scanmaster =/
The readings were as follows:
o2 milivolts-->808
Knock Retard-->13.6*

And when i pushed both of the buttons at the same time the two numbers on the SM were:
058.....037

Any comments or opinions on the new updated status/situation?

 

[kTrainHurricane]

anyone?

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Sounds like false knock to me. There is no way 15psi and 110 is going to knock, and your O2's are in check too.

 

[jdpolzin]

Please answer the list of quesstions I gave you and I may be able to come up with more info for you. I know you answered a few but go right down the list. There are many different variables that can contribute to knock.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Please answer the list of quesstions I gave you and I may be able to come up with more info for you. I know you answered a few but go right down the list. There are many different variables that can contribute to knock.

1). Instant high number, no steady climb from low to high

2). (answered)

3). not sure, was supposed to check it with a friend but neither of us had a FP gauge...

4). TurboTweak chip from Eric...not sure on specs. Previous owner told me it was "specifically made for this exact car" on 93 pump gas

5). 1st and 2nd gear ...i usually get out of it before i get to 3rd because i get scared i'm gonna blow something up lol

6). Was supposed to take it to local go-to-guy down here but he was goin to the track on my day off

7). No idea. I'm new to this, and dont really know a lot about the cars and stuff. I trusted that the previous owner upgraded as necessary...

8). Yes

9). No - again, was gonna take it to the go-to-guy on my day off to have all that stuff checked out, but was unable to this week.

10). Yes, on Wednesday to be exact

 

[jdpolzin]

1). Instant high number, no steady climb from low to high

Usually real knock will go up in incraments 1-2-5-9-etc, straight to a number usually means false knock but dont rn it hard till you find out for sure.

2). (answered)

Your O2's look ok so thats a good thing, low numbers are bad!!


3). not sure, was supposed to check it with a friend but neither of us had a FP gauge...

Be sure to make sure your fuel pressure is set at 43lb's with the vacuum hose off the regulator, usually thats what Eric specs his chips out to.

4). TurboTweak chip from Eric...not sure on specs. Previous owner told me it was "specifically made for this exact car" on 93 pump gas

Most of Erics chips are adjustable as far as timing and fuel, might want to contat him. Use you Scanmaster to adjust fuel and timing in each gear. Fatten up the tune if you need to. Most knock is affiliated to lean conditions for the amount of boost you are running.

5). 1st and 2nd gear ...i usually get out of it before i get to 3rd because i get scared i'm gonna blow something up lol

Thats a good thing to stay out f it, slowly but surely we'll figure this out, dont get too ansy to mash the gas!!!!!!!!!!

6). Was supposed to take it to local go-to-guy down here but he was goin to the track on my day off

Do this on the street before you take it to the track, most of the time you want to stay in it at the track, dont take till you have completely gotten rid of the knock.

7). No idea. I'm new to this, and dont really know a lot about the cars and stuff. I trusted that the previous owner upgraded as necessary...

Ok, might want to drop the tank and see what pump you have. Even if you have a parts store pump, it's always a good idea to run a Hotwire kit to make sure you have voltage at all times. A lot of the time, you will lose voltage to the pump at WOT without a Hotwire kit. No Voltage means no fuel!

8). Yes

Good, bad alternator means no voltage or low voltage to the pump

9). No - again, was gonna take it to the go-to-guy on my day off to have all that stuff checked out, but was unable to this week.

Take a stethascope to the inectors. You will hear them clicking open if they are good. We had this problem as well and found that one of our injectors wasnt opening which meant no fuel to that cylinder.....OUCH!

10). Yes, on Wednesday to be exact

Ok, thats one thing people tend to look past. A clogged up fuel filter means no fuel and at boost.......KABOOM!

 

[kTrainHurricane]

ok, so after the consensus (sp?) was that i am getting false knock, which was given by most people on the forumS, text messages from ppl i know in the TB community, and the local go-to-guy down here when i spoke with him on the phone, i got on it again tonight to: a). get more numbers logged and share in hopes of finding out for sure what my situation is, and b).whoop up on the g35 that was tryin me tonight lol.

Anyway, numbers were:
o2 milivolts --> 820
Knock retard --> 19.9*

When i pushed the two buttons down at the same time the readings were:
041.....025


As always, any input is much appreciated!

 

[Razor]

When you push one of the buttons it gives you the lowest O2 and the most knock it saw. When you push both buttons it tells you at what MPH it occurred.

Testing for knock should be done in 3rd gear. That way your not chasing knock on shifts. And you roll into the pedal watching O2's and knock activity.

If your doing this from a standstill.. your going to get knock when the car shifts or ???

Your O2's should show mid 800's when you roll into it and then taper down to low 800's or upper 700's. This is if the O2 sensor is working properly.

You can bring the car up here.. Laz will be up here today

 

[Smokin-6]

Anyway, numbers were:
o2 milivolts --> 820
Knock retard --> 19.9*

When i pushed the two buttons down at the same time the readings were:
041.....025


As always, any input is much appreciated!

Razor is right, you need to goose it in 3rd. I would gas it slowly at 50mph and then look at the scanmaster, give us all your numbers not just O2 & Knock retard. Your KR is probably when it shifts.

 

[suicide six]

Turbo Regal Knock Problem Check List
1. Start-up knock? Normal and usually caused by the starter engaging the flex plate. Usually sets off 1-3 lights.
2. Possible bad ECM or ESC module. Test with good working units.
3. Exhaust rattle – check the down pipe, tail pipes, and have engine tie down strap
4. Boost creep especially top of 1st gear on 1-2 shift.
5. Lean air/fuel mixture.
6. To low octane gas – bad pump gas – try some race gas
7. Too much timing in chip for fuel used. Try different chip.
8. Try cooler spark plugs – use only AC Delco (R43-TS or R42-TS)
9. Gap plugs to .035
10. Check torque converter bolts to make sure they are tight
11. Loose harmonic balancer. Make sure torqued to 200 ft/lb Is keyway secure?
12. Check internal engine noises like timing chains (roller), lifters/rockers, etc.
13. Damaged knock sensor
14. Check fuel pump pressure and volume
15. Proper torque on knock sensor – 14 ft/lb
16. Check Alternator voltage: 13.8 - 14.5v
17. Check computer power wire - they can break internally.
18. Troubleshoot the computer connector power wires and ground wires.
19. Swap coil pack, wires, plugs w/known good units.
20. Swap MAF with known good unit.
21. Check battery ground connection @ block (clean/inspect).
22. Check/change battery cables (both).
23. Are there MAF leaks in the inlet tube?
24. Are there vacuum leaks. Use carb cleaner or WD-40 & spray everything. Does the rpm change?
25. Disconnect the main injector harness - inspect, WD-40. Check for moisture in main connector.
26. Disconnect the coil-pack connector - inspect pins & spray w/WD-40.
27. Is the cat still installed? Is it good?
28. Have you performed a leak down check?
29. Do the rockers open/close? Do we have a wiped cam lobe?
30. Is the boost/vacuum steady @ idle?
31. Is the engine over revving? Should be 4,800-5,200 rpm
32. Carbon in cylinders? Clean with GM engine top cleaner
33. Inter-cooler dirty? Clean inside inter-cooler and fins
34. Oil in intake tract?
35. Check for exhaust leaks, cracked header
36. Battery good?
37. EGR valve in working order?
38. Check that no cables, wires, etc are touching the knock sensor
39. Blown head gasket? Compression test. Should be around 150.
40. Injectors flowing/working correctly?
41. Check vacuum line to fuel pressure regulator for cracks