Will a Remote Oil Filter Cause a Pressure Drop?

[dr_frankenstein]

Whats up Everyone?

As always im pressed for space and need to relocate my oil filter.

Ive never run a remote filter before, never had a need too until now. I got a Dual filter adapter from a buddy and was going to reuse it since it was free... but then he told me of the reson he removed it was because it was causing a 8lb drop in his oil pressure on his buick. I argued he must have had one toooo many 90* fittings in there for that to happen, but iI looked at his install and it was fairly straight and short with -10 AN lines and hi-flow fittings with a nice Derale spin on adapter.. he has since gone back to a biggie adapter and regular filter and pressure came back up.

Adapter uses 2 STP S-25s or fram PH11 /25

is this too much filter for a buick? or is the extra 2 feet of line the problem?

help me out with this

 

[pacecarta]

he may have installed the remote with the in-out lines swapped ...seen that before

 

[Nick Micale]

The 2' of line is almost zero restriction. I have about 6' of lines on my car and have start up pressure at ~100 psi, hot it is 35-40 psi.

My filter also has almost zero restriction as it is a stainless 40 micron mesh and no by-pass.

I do not want a $5 POS paper filter with unknown density and a bypass to protect my expensive engine.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

so there should be no worrys then right? there should be no loss in pressure adding these two filters? as for filters, thats just what the instructions said would fit.

I cant seem to understand why it would cause a drop in pressure... and i will inspect to see if perhaps the lines were indeed backwards.

Thanks for your thoughts Gents!

 

[trixdout]

Also what filter was your buddy using. If it was a wix or napa gold then i can't tell you why the pressure drop, but if it was something off the autozone shelf like a Mobil 1, kn, fram, stp, or one of those fiters, then he might have had the pressure drop from that.

Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick

 

[earlbrown]

I know the 'perma-cool' spin on adapter ise pretty restrictive out of the box. I've never laid hands on a Derale adapter. What do you have to adapt to AN... if it's 1/2NPT to -10, what's the ID of the adapter fittings?

I think what you were actually asking was 'will this kit cause more pressure drop than I already have?'. If that's the case, then the answer is 'it depends'.

The oil your engine gets is pump pressure -pressure drop +bypassed oil. If you're using a spin on filter adapter, you engine gets what comes out of the filter + what goes through the filter bypass. As long as those two passages can flow enough oil to keep your engine happy, you're good. If your engine demands more than those two can flow, you're in trouble.

Now here's the trick. Lets say you have a 50# spring and 10#s of pressure drop. You'll have 40# at the brass block. (nice even numbers). Now lets say you install something that causes 30#'s of total pressure drop. The pump won't know what happens after it leaves so the 'fix' would be to increase the spring poundage an additional 20#'s to get you back to 40 on the brass block.

That being said, going that route will eat up more HP driving the pump, and beat up on the oil more (both physically and imparting heat). It's always in your best interest to radius as much as you can and play close attention to ANY bottleneck in the loop. All it takes is 1 and that's as much as everything can flow.

I would look closely at the casting that holds the two filters. Make sure ALL the passages have no bottlenecks, sharp short side radius', or casting flashes/bumps.

Any change your friend had an oil cooler on the loop when it was on his car?

 

[bison]

I never saw a pressure drop. One thing I known is it will reduce bypass oil to an extent.

 

[ek02]

The Fram PH25 crosses over to a Wix 51258 or a Napa Gold 1258. They flow 9-11 GPM and filter 21 microns. Two of those should flow enough, but if you want high flow filters, the Fram HP2 flows 18 GPM, but filters only 18 microns. HP2's have a bypass with a screen to filter big pieces out of the by passed oil. Regular Fram filters have a bad reputation, but the HP2 raised my oil pressure 8 PSI at 5000 RPM and 4 PSI at idle over the WIX. It will let more dirt through, but I change the oil often. Of course, they have the crappy cardboard end caps. Check out the K&P Nick runs. Big bucks, but it is really nice. Since you can get the dual filter rig for free, all it will cost you is some hose and 2 filters. I would try it.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Well after a sudden drop in pressure again after driving, Erik (the other, other one) thinks that its the bypass being a part of the problem since he had been running fram bypass HP2 filters at the same time. Both with the dual filter option and in the factory config. So he plans to plug the cover bypass and continue with the HP2. He was running an oil cooler. The Derale dual circuit unit thats 4 pass and set up with -10 fittings that looped in on the return from the filter and then from the cooler back into the engine. In the factory config he used the sandwich adapter and the cooler was plumbed there.

Im still going to try the dual filter unit for myself, I will give it the Earl look over and confirm that it isnt a trash casting.

Thank ya again Gents!

 

[earlbrown]

Blocking the bypass should do more harm than good as far as pressure drop. Let's say you're external filter loop has a restriction in it somewhere. The engine will be getting filtered oil PLUS whatever the bypass brings to the table. If you block the bypass, you'll lose whatever supplemental oil it was providing.
The only time blocking the bypass won't hurt flow is if the filter arrangement is so free flowing the valve would be closed anyway.

Look at the duel filter casting... Are the filters plumbed in parallel or series?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I believe the dual filter adapter is set up in parallel. it is a TransDapt piece, here is a link to it at summit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-1030/media/images

looks real nice! but i dunno if this is the cause of the problem.

The reason we were looking into plugging the bypass is the Buick Free Spirit Manual describes the procedure and the benifits.It seems like a fairly sound plan PROVIDED we run the filters with the internal bypass, as i can see one exploding or crushing when the oil is cold if the engine bypass is plugged.

As designed, I thought the dual filter system with a good adapter and quality AN -10 lines and fittings would be the best bet for flow, providing lower restriction then the factory system. My only other ideas, is that the system flows soooooo well now that the oil pump is seeing less restriction and thats where it can keep up in terms of oil pressure at low rpms....... does that sound like a coherant thought? or have i lost my marbles? this has me baffled and beginning to worry maybe we have an internal hemmoraging of oil at a bearing.

 

[earlbrown]

It wouldn't be internal hemorrhaging if the pressure came back after removing the remote kit.

Looking at that adapter it says it's set up for 1/2NPT fittings. Theoretically, 1/2 is the equivalent of -8AN. I'd hand a set of calipers on the ID of the fittings on the filter adapter.


I think you've misinerpeted the Free Spirit Manual (sound kinda hippy to me too ) When it says "make sure to run internal bypass type filters when plugging the filter bypass". That is to protect the oil filters not the engine.

The bypass adapter in the stock filter adapter is to protect the engine. It vents for two reasons.... One is to protect the engine in case of a clogged filter, the other is to protect the engine by supplementing oil on top of filtered oil.


Lets get back to basics......

We know the kit you have caused a pressure drop on a running engine. Removing it restored the pressure. That's pretty scientifical.

What that means is when it was installed on your friends engine his bypass valve in the stock filter housing was fully open and couldn't keep up with demand. The amount of supplemantal oil was trumped by a flow restriction on the filter circuit.

wait a minute... this just in: Any idea if the filter bypass was plugged on your friends engine when he put this kit on?

If so, all he did was prove that the remote kit doesn't flow as well as a spin-on filter.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

well were going to pull it apart again tonight and look a little deeper... Erik is beggining to worry as much as i am about it and wishing he had never messed with the remote filters in the first place. I feel bad because he was kinda my guinea pig on the concept. i am going to take the calipers to everything and hopefully it will show something.

Thanks for all the help Earl.

Thanks Gents for all the other replys

A.j.

 

[earlbrown]

Does he know if the bypass is blocked? (the one in the stock filter housing, he one that says METRIC, stupid dumb chitload of bypassessess!)

 

[charlief1]

Ran a remote on the old skyhawk and had enough pressure to balloon the filter Aj. What filters are you runnig now because a dual filter set up should reduce some of the restrictions if it's set up right, but if you use cheap filters then it a FUBAR to say the least.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Does he know if the bypass is blocked? (the one in the stock filter housing, he one that says METRIC, stupid dumb chitload of bypassessess!)

it has not been blocked, it was as factory and did indeed say metric.

Ran a remote on the old skyhawk and had enough pressure to balloon the filter Aj. What filters are you runnig now because a dual filter set up should reduce some of the restrictions if it's set up right, but if you use cheap filters then it a FUBAR to say the least.

filters were the Fram HP2s

we got the cover off, but havent had a chance to inspect it. it was dinner time and the cook was turning wrenchs instead of cooking... im sure you could imagine the evil eye i got!

 

[earlbrown]

it has not been blocked, it was as factory and did indeed say metric.

That means the bypass couldn't flow enough to maintain full pressure. The choke point has to be somewhere in the kit.

we got the cover off, but havent had a chance to inspect it. it was dinner time and the cook was turning wrenchs instead of cooking... im sure you could imagine the evil eye i got!

The cover should be adequate as it supplied pressure without the remote kit. As far as the evil eye I can't help you there. I've never seen that problem here

 

[charlief1]

filters were the Fram HP2s

You answered your own questions Aj. Get a decent filter on it and throw those damn fram away.

 

[earlbrown]

the HP's aren't the same as the parts store frams.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

You answered your own questions Aj. Get a decent filter on it and throw those damn fram away.

Sheesh! be glad it was those and not the STP's im so partial to running! LOL

After some discussion with our other truck hybrid Mr EK02, I had gained some faith in the HP2 and since they are the roundy round favorite around here, they are super easy to get vs the wix or napa units.... i didnt think this would be the issue.

been working on buicks for a grip.......probably engine number 16 or so.... first time one has been this unhappy with me.... it has shaken my confidence!