WOT correction OFF with Alky?

[TurboBuRick]

The proof is the plugs.

Temperature is the problem. You can't control intake temps. When it's too cold your gonna have problems.

 

[Razor]

The proof is the plugs.

Temperature is the problem. You can't control intake temps. When it's too cold your gonna have problems.

Every psi of boost = 11 degree's. 20 PSI is 220 degree's above ambient. If its 30 degree's outside that 250 coming out of the turbo. Then you have the coolant temp is lets say 165 degree's. The intake manifold is at 165 degree's. Anyone who has put an IAT sensor inside the intake and let the motor get nice and hot will see this effect.

Yes that 250 temp will get cooled down quite a bit by the intercooler.. But your reaching for straws. I'd bet there is something else at play. Improper tuning is my bet(tuned way lean). But with no datalog.. I cannot prove/disprove the theory, neither can you. Now your going through the carnage looking for a smoking gun to point the "Ahh HA... " finger. Simple Buick 101 tuning.. it gets cold outside.. crank the fuel pressure up. This has been done since the 80's.

Plugs being destroyed means the motor detonated.. plain and simple. Why did it detonate?? No datalog= your guessing. There are 4000+ alcohol kits(mine, SMC's, Devils Own, Snow, etc) running around on these cars. Everytime something goes wrong its the alcohol kit. (I wont get into running a motor hard with a really old kit)..You beat on a motor enough times it will poop the bed sooner or latter. Thats "racing". This is why there is no warranty on racing engines. Too much is at play. And like will all games... you run really high boost on a V6.. hedge your bets. But this strategy costs money buying extra stuff and using it. At this point I feel bad for the guy that lost his motor, and the truth is the best thing that can happen is to make the proper decision as to what happened so he can have closure and move from there. But before the finger wagging starts.. better be sure on your predictions and not "assume" the problem. That doesnt fix anything. Worse is an improper diagnosis.. put an engine together.. and kabooom... the culprit showed its head again. Its always the little things that do you in.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Think of it like a doberman on a loose leash. Your going to get bit unless you keep an eye on the situation.

fixed that for you

 

[Blazer406]

Why is it that we push these little motors that are (well most are) based off 25 year old technology and we expect them to perform flawlessly up to 700 RWHP on pump gas and alky out of well less than 250 CI in most cases?

Seems to defy logic.....

These little motors in big HP situations are going to be a dying breed.... cause there are only a limited supply of blocks/cranks/parts to refresh these when we blow them up..... and they will blow up if you push them beyond the limits....... the fuse gets shorter and shorter.... and the older the dynamite....the less stable it gets as well....

There is some good value in this thread IMHO.... Good job guys.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Every psi of boost = 11 degree's. 20 PSI is 220 degree's above ambient. If its 30 degree's outside that 250 coming out of the turbo. Then you have the coolant temp is lets say 165 degree's. The intake manifold is at 165 degree's. Anyone who has put an IAT sensor inside the intake and let the motor get nice and hot will see this effect.

Yes that 250 temp will get cooled down quite a bit by the intercooler.. But your reaching for straws. I'd bet there is something else at play. Improper tuning is my bet(tuned way lean). But with no datalog.. I cannot prove/disprove the theory, neither can you. Now your going through the carnage looking for a smoking gun to point the "Ahh HA... " finger. Simple Buick 101 tuning.. it gets cold outside.. crank the fuel pressure up. This has been done since the 80's.

Plugs being destroyed means the motor detonated.. plain and simple. Why did it detonate?? No datalog= your guessing. There are 4000+ alcohol kits(mine, SMC's, Devils Own, Snow, etc) running around on these cars. Everytime something goes wrong its the alcohol kit. (I wont get into running a motor hard with a really old kit)..You beat on a motor enough times it will poop the bed sooner or latter. Thats "racing". This is why there is no warranty on racing engines. Too much is at play. And like will all games... you run really high boost on a V6.. hedge your bets. But this strategy costs money buying extra stuff and using it. At this point I feel bad for the guy that lost his motor, and the truth is the best thing that can happen is to make the proper decision as to what happened so he can have closure and move from there. But before the finger wagging starts.. better be sure on your predictions and not "assume" the problem. That doesnt fix anything. Worse is an improper diagnosis.. put an engine together.. and kabooom... the culprit showed its head again. Its always the little things that do you in.

The writing is on the wall but you will never admit it. Again YOU CAN"T CONTROL INTAKE TEMPERATURE. When ambient temps are in the 40's you gonna tell me it's the same as the 80's? No way bro. Sorry.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

... Dont want to worry about it.. drop the boost to a more "I can make mistakes level" like 20-22....

While you were running 155+ I was taking it easy on Thurs in no-mistakes mode at 18-19 psi boost, 21/20* timing and trapped 125+ picking up 27.3mph out the back Alky is fun!

 

[TurboTnZ06]

What about having the alky controller leverage a temp sensor after the IC before spraying alky to show a red light to indicate WOT is not recommended due to super cold air conditions?

 

[Blazer406]

In our experience.... initial ramp-up on the boost the temps are higher than at the end of the run.... the temps go lower and lower during the run (for the most part)..... I've seen temps in the back of the doghouse in the 40's by the end of the run........ boost in the low 20's....

This was on a single nozzle kit and C16 fuel in the tank.

 

[pacecarta]

ive run in 30 degree weather
my inlets saturday at 23psi were 63Deg through run , iat before run of 139deg , ambient air temp 74
only running 132 picking up 27 out the backdoor

qoute
"The cold ambient temps combined with a wind chill makes for disaster"

fyi there is no such thing as wind chill when it comes to anything other than skin

tune for warm weather on the lean edge and then run in cold ..you're going to have a bad day
boost sudden on the street which can spool amazingly fast if youre rolling already ,without giving alky a moment to get there and .....you're going to have a bad day
bad relays ,weak pump...you're going to have a bad day

ive read eight pages of dribble and still dont see any evidence where alky and error correcting are a time bomb

 

[TurboBuRick]

No wind chill? Then put a piece of cardboard in front of your cooler and take a blast. Come on Paul.

 

[pacecarta]

thats not wind chill
when you see news and says 50 but wind chill temps are 35 thats the temp it feels like on exposed skin
if it 50 degrees thats as low as anything thats not skin will get no matter how much air blows across it

simple physics

 

[TurboBuRick]

I'm not talking actual wind chill. I stand corrected. Talking the air that's forced across the cooler due to the speed of the car. And I know it's not going to go below ambient. Thanks for the lesson.

 

[TNTSNBS]

This is a simple END USER error, if you knew it was going to be hella cold that would lead to the meth not flashing and begin to puddle in the back thus leaving the front #1 cylinder lean, you should off been a lot more carefull, turn boost down or simply tune for the weather at hand, you learned a hard lesson now move on, it is called racing for a reason, an engine that is being pushed can and will blow up when you make a simple mistake..

 

[Alky V6]

ive read eight pages of dribble and still dont see any evidence where alky and error correcting are a time bomb

Error correcting? Are you talking about a single wideband giving an average reading of all cylinders to use for error correction? Or, are you talking about multiple sensors for individual cylinder correction?

 

[bison]

When the charge air temp increases i use more methanol volume and increase timing. When it gets cold out i reduce the alky volume and decrease timing. The exact opposite of what is normally done with timing on a gas engine.

 

[bison]

No wind chill? Then put a piece of cardboard in front of your cooler and take a blast. Come on Paul.

Thats not wind chill. Wind chill has nothing to do with an engine.

 

[jasjamz]

Sometimes a stupid broken plastic tube to the 3 bar can create more drama than you could ever think And everyone is out to blame the world with theories

Yep! I am learning more and more every car I touch, and thread I read. Test button, alky red/green light. and no knock...omit one and you go on my "Headgasket Wall of Shame" Just pulled the heads off a motor I ran at over 30psi on pump gas and alky car a few passes at the Osceola Buick Midwest Challange event in 2011. Stock type gaskets in shape. Correction was on and it was adding, not pulling fuel.

 

[TurboBuRick]

This is a simple END USER error, if you knew it was going to be hella cold that would lead to the meth not flashing and begin to puddle in the back thus leaving the front #1 cylinder lean, you should off been a lot more carefull, turn boost down or simply tune for the weather at hand, you learned a hard lesson now move on, it is called racing for a reason, an engine that is being pushed can and will blow up when you make a simple mistake..

That would be accurate if it was my car.

When the charge air temp increases i use more methanol volume and increase timing. When it gets cold out i reduce the alky volume and decrease timing. The exact opposite of what is normally done with timing on a gas engine.

That's great info and makes sense. Like already mentioned intake temp should play a role in the alky controller.

Thats not wind chill. Wind chill has nothing to do with an engine.

It was a figure of speech. Post 172

Yep! I am learning more and more every car I touch, and thread I read. Test button, alky red/green light. and no knock...omit one and you go on my "Headgasket Wall of Shame" Just pulled the heads off a motor I ran at over 30psi on pump gas and alky car a few passes at the Osceola Buick Midwest Challange event in 2011. Stock type gaskets in shape. Correction was on and it was adding, not pulling fuel.

Was it 40f degrees out there?

 

[bison]

It was common in the past to add timing with cooler inlet temps. That works great with a dry flow engine that has enough octane. The aftermarket ecu's have a table for it. I wouldn't use that for a wet flowed alky application like we run. You will be heating the cylinder up a lot and have less alky vaporization at the same time. Not a good combo

 

[Grumpy]

ive read eight pages of dribble and still dont see any evidence where alky and error correcting are a time bomb

I totally agree BUT maybe we are just lucky BUT seriouslly I do wonder what is goin on with all these guys grenading stuff. We are still on a chip because I am old an stubborn to go to a Fast system that I have no idea about. Nor do I want to.. Gotta keep it simple for the old folks like me. I had Melissa's car and the wagon out in the nice cool winter nights a few times on "Chinese drink" night. Would just roll into it.. Damm they loved the cold air. Oh we only run "TSM" boost.

So keep talking here an find out whats goin on. Hopefully someone will find something common that guys are doin.