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2004 GTO Backlash

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Two Lane

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Feb 24, 2002
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4,248
AUTOWEEK
(03:21:44 Oct. 01, 2003)

Getting GM’s Goat: GTO fans sound off on ‘sucked caramel’ styling of 2004 Monaro-based model


By BOB GRITZINGER


GTO fans displeased with the Monaro-based 2004 GTO (below) will find Ford's Mustang featured on ultimateGTO.com

FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE GOING online in 1996, a pretty Pontiac GTO photo isn’t the Picture of the Week on the Ultimate Pontiac GTO Picture Site (www.ulti
mateGTO.com).

In a protest sparked by what the website owner describes as an overwhelmingly negative response to the exterior styling of the 2004 Pontiac GTO, the enthusiast site is featuring several shots of the Mustang GT concept (from March 23 to March 29) that debuted at the Detroit and Los Angeles auto shows in January.

General Motors, under the guidance of product vice chairman Bob Lutz, decided last year to bring back the fabled GTO badge on a performance coupe based on the Holden Monaro, built by GM’s Australian subsidiary. The car’s pedigree is impressive: a modified 5.7-liter LS1 V8 engine producing 340 hp at 5200 rpm and 360 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, sport-tuned suspension and an optional six-speed manual tranny. But for GTO purists flocking to ultimateGTO.com, the latest rendition due late this year may have all the performance of a GTO, but it misses the mark because it lacks signature elements like hood scoops, prominent GTO badging and tough styling.

“We feel GM has just hijacked the GTO name to sell some other car,” says site owner Sean Mattingly.

Or, as one GTO fan posted: “GTO needs to look like it’s breaking the law parked at the curb. The styling for this machine is just another bubble car.” Or this: “You give us this? An Australian sucked caramel?”

Hogwash, says Lutz, who waded into the website bulletin board fray back in mid-January, posting a personal response to assaults on his GTO from Down Under. Lutz noted that “dyed-in-the-wool old-line GTO [fans] are disappointed it’s a non-retro-themed car with few throwback GTO cues,” but he argued that wasn’t what GM set out to do with the car.

“We wanted a modern interpretation, with a really slick chassis to go along with a big engine,” Lutz wrote. “We really would like to draw new customers, rather than traditionalists.”

Lutz assured the car “will more than live up to the GTO heritage in terms of driving excitement and performance”—but in a nod to traditionalists he promised hood scoops for 2005.

Fair enough, but most of Lutz’s comments only served to inflame the GTO masses who fired back with more vitriol, Mattingly says. In response, Mattingly felt the site had to make a statement on behalf of the beleaguered Goat fans—and posting the Mustang GT seemed like a logical choice.

“The Mustang was the real star of the auto shows,” notes Mattingly. GM spokesman Tom Kowaleski says the company respects the website’s right to free speech. But he urges GTO fans to withhold judgment on the new car.

“Once they get in the car, I guarantee 90 percent of them will come out all smiles,” he says.

But it’s the crew down the road in Dearborn with the big smiles—at least for now.

“We understand why the website chose Mustang, because it’s the only classic pony car still standing today,” says Ford’s Special Vehicle Team chief John Coletti. “This new GTO is like a Cavalier on a Camaro chassis.”
 
The last time the topic of the GTO came up, I was one of the few that defended the GTO saying that at least they came out with a front engine,rear drive platform. They seem to be doing something right instead of killing off, as they normally do... like the Firebird, Camaro, Impala SS and even our own beloved Turbo Regal.

But I have to say, I do hand it to the GTO community for making such a strong protest about the styling and the clear rebuffing of the 'traditionalists' that GM is giving. I'm a firm beleiver in staying with a company that tries to make me happy and wants to keep me around as a loyal customer and 'traditionalist'. I could only imagine how the Grand National community would react if they were try to bring back the GN. Granted, there would be some that would NEVER be satisfied, but I would hope that they (GM) would make attempts to continue with the all-black muscular rear wheel drive that so many of us drive and enjoy. I for one will never forget how I felt when I saw the "Le Mans" come back out in the 80s as an econo-box Korean built POS. (At the time, I had a LeMans of the Wide Track generation).

So... come on GM.... get with the program here. You've got a great following, don't turn your backs. Listen to the people and they shall buy again!
 
The meat and bones of the 04 GTO will be great but the skin is NFG. It NEEDS to have some character of the first GTOs. Lutz is a kluz. He don't get it.
 
I think they need to let that kid who designed the new concept camaro have a go at it. That car definitely has style :D
 
Originally posted by Pronto
The meat and bones of the 04 GTO will be great but the skin is NFG. It NEEDS to have some character of the first GTOs. Lutz is a kluz. He don't get it.

How can you say this. Look back over the last ten to fifteen years of GM vehicles: with the exception of the Vette and the F-bodies (which no longer exsist) GM has had no performance vehicles. Now they have a rear drive big engine car which has an available six-speed, a back seat you can actually use, and hundreds of engine mods already on the market. They have a 400hp Cadillac CTS-V, the next Gen Vette is going to have a 500hp 427ci LS motor. If GM were to make an all new GTO instead of adapting a current production vehicle, we'd be waiting another two years.

I for one love the new GTO and when me fiance's lease is up on her Saab, I going to try my best to talk her into getting one (I want to keep my truck).
 
Originally posted by Pronto
The meat and bones of the 04 GTO will be great but the skin is NFG. It NEEDS to have some character of the first GTOs. Lutz is a kluz. He don't get it.

If Lutz wasn't there, they'd be making 210 HP performance models of the Azteck and be thinking they were cool.
 
GTO is ........

They left alot to be desired on the styling of the GTO. GM has totally dropped the ball when it comes to styling. They seem to think that a car with no real lines is the way to go. I think at this time the new mustang looks awesome and the lightning is just plain cool. I have always been a diehard Chevy fan - but my next truck will probably be a Ford lightning or Dodge Hemi.

Alan
 
Turbob, I belive the performance of the GTO will be great but Lutz should have insisted the looks be unique and GTOesque, instead of just grotesque. GM has done alot lately with performance (whether the become production is another story, GM always drops the ball) but the still lack imagination on the looks department. The new Mustange is going to kill the GTO in sales just because it looks like its a powerful musclecar. The new GTO looks like a silicone implant that fell out of Pamala Anderson.

"GM has had no performance vehicles" Well I guess that leaves out the GTP and GS guys that are runing in the 13s or better.
 
BTW according to my friend that sells Pontiacs, the 2005 is going to look alot better and the first year buyers are going to be trading their's in in droves because they are blaaa.
 
The purists will never be happy and that is that.

There is history behind the monaro (gto) and its very similar to our muscle car history... Im a younger guy so I honestly can not tell you the different between all the years but I know the first gto was just built off another pontiac car as more of a performance package. This is a modern car with better than historic GTO performance.

Style is objective

www.ls1gto.com

The pontiac salespeople are even more clueless than the guys on ultimategto.com

Maybe they should pull up to coletti's neighborhood with the HSV 427 (now debunked) and see if he has anything he wants to race a "caviler" with
 
Designing a new car can take a good amount of time. I think Lutz wanted to quickly pump some life into the gap left by the demise of f body production and this was the quick, easy way to make it happen. I also think he thought it would be cool to revive the GTO name on a performance worthy car. Remember, before he came along they were tossing around the idea of putting it on a Grand Am! I'll agree that in the pictures the styling is bland and needs some classic GTO cues but I'll reserve full judgement until I see some on the road and close up. I understand plans to restyle it are already in the works and will be an American styled body and surely more to our liking. As UNGN said, without Lutz, GM would be wandering aimlessly thru the performance world. Not to take anything away from the GTP's or GS's, but they are warm and we want (affordable) HOT! Lutz is the only guy there making it happen that I can see.
 
If the car had it's own name, it would have gotten a great reception. It's just that using a retro name but saying you aren't cashing in on it being retro is BS. If you pay homage to a past performer, it should be in appearance too, not just name. We all know the GTO was a regular car beefed up that became the GTO. They should have given the new car it's own name and then come out with an even higher performance version and called THAT the GTO package. Something like that would have worked better if it isn't going to look retro. I'm glad to see RWD, V8 and 6 speed come back though. IF it makes it a couple of years, I bet you see some good styling put on it. Gotta sell 'em first though, and that may not happen for a V8 Grand Prix.
 
Originally posted by UNGN
If Lutz wasn't there, they'd be making 210 HP performance models of the Azteck and be thinking they were cool.

LOL! True.
Gotta like John Coletti, even if you don't like Ford. The guy is a muscle car nut and competitive. That's a great combination. I'd love to see GM replace John Moss (retired, I think) with someone just like Coletti and give him some room. You'd see some cool stuff coming out then.
 
The car is a nice car, and maybe it shouldn't be a GTO, but it is a great platform with a nice body on it, just as the original GTO was a lemans and had charactoristics of a grand prix, this car is similar to the rest of the pontiac line up. The old timers will never be happy with it until it has the stacked headlights and all the rest of the retro ques. This car was not a newly designed car, and was delivered here for money purposes, on the next redesign im sure it will have a few more classic touches, but until then, people need to get over it. And for the record my dad and I are going to begin a full resto on his 67 GTO convertible so I am not biased towards new or old.;)
 
Originally posted by GN One Day...
It's just that using a retro name but saying you aren't cashing in on it being retro is BS.

If they were doing a limited production car intended for just a couple of years then I would agree. But I get the feeling they intend the name to stay so why does it have to be retro? Some retro cues would be really nice but times have really changed since the last GTO in '74. Which, by the way, was a Ventura which was basically a Nova with Pontiac badging. What would the car look like today if it had never stopped production? Probably nothing like the 60's cars. As long as you follow the GTO formula and it's a Pontiac. Personally, I wish it had a high performance modern PONTIAC V-8. But like I said, times have changed and now we have "corporate" engines.
 
I like the powertrain ideas for the GTO, but c'mon, it aint no GTO. This new GTO needs to be a BIG ASS car (2dr.) like the size of maybe a cadillac, with an even bigger ass motor in it, complete with hood scoop. No strike that, something about the size of say, a Mercury Marauder. Perfect. I like that Mercury Marauder.
 
Originally posted by soonergn
If Personally, I wish it had a high performance modern PONTIAC V-8. But like I said, times have changed and now we have "corporate" engines.

Yea, bring back the SD 455 and dump the Chevy engine. The heck with change. It sucks sometimes.
The GTO needs to look like a GTO not another "EGG" import.
 
Originally posted by Bobtempest
The GTO needs to look like a GTO not another "EGG" import.

You mean like an old car. Do the grand prix or trans ams of today look like the ones of old? Nope. This car was acctually not made for GTO purists but BMW performance sedan buyer who wants a powerful lux-sport sedan.
 
Originally posted by jon_we4
You mean like an old car. Do the grand prix or trans ams of today look like the ones of old? Nope. This car was acctually not made for GTO purists but BMW performance sedan buyer who wants a powerful lux-sport sedan.

exactly, this isn't a cool tbird revival for a few years its a poorer mans BMW mercedes fighter, which GM needs because up until recently with the CTSv they had nothing at all. There is no market for a retro big GTO after the initial sales of the purist and collectors, it will be phased out just like a lot of the greats, they want this one around and they are doing the right thing. Look at the Marauder:gone Tbird : gone, beetle:sales suck: 05 mustang: we'll see.... The SSR::rolleyes:
 
Why not have some GTO retro looks and still be a poorer mans BMW mercedes fighter? Besides most of your BMW people would not even know what a classic GTO features are anyway. Nothing is really that bad about it, if they would have did something to the exterior. Why even call it a GTO?
At least have a Judge package that has some GTO looks. That would leave the "EGG" for the cars with no lines, lovers.
Watch how many Mustangs sell.
 
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