2004R tv setup issue

[350Rocket]

I hope you guys can help me, I just bought a $400 daily driver 89 Caprice with the 305 TBI and 2004R trans. The previous owner had run the 2004R low on fluid for about a week and cooked it. She didn't know how to properly check the fluid level with it running, so she thought fluid level was fine, other than this the car has been very well maintained and still in good shape with 304k miles on it.

Anyways I had 3 spare 2004R's lying around at my friends place so I swapped a low mileage 1985 2004R from a g body with an LG4 305. Unfortunately I didn't have the torque converter so I used one from an 1982 trans that had the same code on it, but different application. My problem is that the TBI throttle linkage and the tv cable and whatever spring are in the trans are not working properly together. I adjusted the tv cable as per the factory setup instructions. We got the car running with the pressure gauge on it and pressures were slightly lower than spec so we adjusted it to get it close to the proper pressure in each gear. Then unhooked the gauge (should have left it on for test drive and further diagnosis). Anyways initial test drive it had very very early soft 1-2, 2-3 and slight flare up, so I stopped before the end of the driveway. Adjusted it further for more line pressure, retested, still way too early/soft. Once we get even close to the shifts being late/hard enough the throttle gets really tight and will not open more than like 1/3 throttle.

We then tried a different cable and it would barely reach the throttle linkage, and when hooked up wouldn't allow any throttle movement either. The first cable was the original one with 304k miles so I'm thinking it may be overly stretched, along with the spring in the 85 trans may be different, and the throttle linkage on the TBI is different.

I need to figure out what TV spring to buy, which TV cable to buy if my stock ones won't work, and any other good advice you may have. Thanks guys, I really need the help.

Mike

 

[GNeric]

There are different diameter throttle valve plunger sizes, boost valve sizes and spring rates for the different calibrations. If it has much smaller boost valves and spring rates for the accumulators, adjusting the throttle cable will only raise pressure so much and delay the shifts. Not really make it correct for the application you are using it. You would have to probably get a recalibration kit from CK and install that before you hurt the trans.

 

[350Rocket]

2 of the local trans shops (both of which seem to be somewhat knowledgeable about 2004Rs, one of which has built some for local GN's running fast times) are telling me I need to figure out the main problem, to get it working the way a stock non performance 2004R should before doing any upgrades. This doesn't seem to agree with the only advise I've gotten on here so far. Any other ideas?

 

[GNeric]

Exactly. You need to get the proper boost valves, accumulator valves and calibrate the valve body to the application in which you are using it. Not to what it was. If you take a CR coded trans and try to run it in an 87 GN as is, you will burn it up without the proper calibration for application. Smaller boost valves in pump are not the .471" that come stock in the BRF trans. They may be a .372" and that is too small for a torque monster. Pressure rise is VERY important. Too low of a base pressure with the smaller valves won't equal the proper setup.

 

[350Rocket]

I completely understand what your saying there, my only problem is that in my case the calibration of the tranny I'm putting in should not be much if any different than the one that was in it original. It came from a fully loaded 86 Buick Regal with a 165hp 305 sbc (factory Canada spec instead of the 307 in the U.S cars), and 2.73 gears. The 89 Caprice its going into has a 170hp 305 and 2.73 gears. It doesn't have power windows, door locks or power seats. Some weird options that don't normally come on a non loaded up car, but all of the heavy stuff it doesn't have so I'd bet the weight is pretty close to the Regal. The only real difference is that I guess with the 15" tires on the Caprice it might make a slightly different final drive ratio.

Also 2 yrs ago I took the 2004R out of my 87 Cutlass that had the 165hp 305 and 2.73 gears factory which I changed out to 3.73's near the end of the cars life. I installed this same stock trans in my 84 Cutlass with a basically stock 350 and 3.73 gears. I drove it like that for a year then changed to 2.56 gears for better gas mileage. Through 4 completely different applications the same transmission without modifications worked almost perfect. I'm only just now considering a shift kit in it, since WOT shifts with the 350 aren't quite as quick as I'd like.

My point here is while I haven't done any real work to a 2004R I've had enough experience with mine in different applications, and I don't understand how this other trans could be so extremely affected by swapping it into a very slightly different vehicle. Whenever I get the time to drive 11/2 hrs to go out and work on it again I'm going to pull the pan and see if I can find anything sticking or hooked up wrong. Other than some kind of a valve body problem that's all that really makes sense in my head.

Anyways I will update when I find the problem. Thanks for the advice.

 

[GNeric]

AHA! I see now. Thought it was going behind a turbo setup. Sorry. I would check to make sure there isn't any contaminants from the other converter that could have gotten into the valve body and maybe has the throttle valve sticking and not reaching full travel. The one at the end of the plunger spring. There is a little tiny spring inside the end of it and lots of kits provide a little helper spring to return to rest position. Lay out some clean shop towels and carefully take the valve body apart valve by valve and make sure there are no burs on any of the lands and I get these little nylon round brushes and clean the bores out real good with solvent and then brake cleaner. Make sure there is no "putty" left under where the lands are in the body.

 

[Nordbert]

How far does the pin for the TV cable (on the throttle body) move
from idle to full throttle position? It should be about 1-1/8" as on the
LG4's Quadrajet. From your text it seems like the travel on the TBI is
a lot less.

 

[350Rocket]

Thanks for the replies. The original tranny to the car did not leave any metal in the pan, there was a whole lot of clutch dust from it burning up over the week it was driven with almost no fluid, i guess it's possible some of that was in the cooler lines and stuck the tv valve.

My friend who's helping me with my car just finished his own 2004R swap in his Cadillac (we were doing 2 at the same time one for each of us), his turned out okay and he compared the pressure readings on both vehicles. While parked all the readings were the same between both vehicles, but on my Caprice they didn't rise when you drove it, pointing towards the sticking valve possibility.

Anyways my friend was asking a guy he knows who owns a trans shop in the area, telling him about my problem and they sold him a cheap $50 shift improver kit of some kind (i haven't seen it yet) that he said he'd had good luck with in the 2004R's.

Anyways we will be pulling the valve body. He says the instructions with the kit look very good and we shouldn't have any trouble, at least we should probably find the problem when it's all apart and hopefully improve the trans from stock a bit once were done. I'm thinking we'll find the problem either in the throttle valve or the valve body somewhere. Thanks again guys, I'll update when were finished.

 

[GNeric]

Good luck. Only problem with clutch dust floating around after burning like that, it keeps sticking the valves. Maybe not right away and maybe not all the time but it happens. Put a filter inline to the cooler to help catch more junk.

 

[350Rocket]

Thanks I will do that. I will also do a good flush through the cooler lines as well before doing the work, so it hopefully doesn't get recontaminated.

 

[GNeric]

It will also be inside the converter. Sticking in little spots like where the lockup clutch is bonded to the metal. It will keep coming out little by little. Just a little warning for you. :smile:

 

[350Rocket]

Guess I didn't clarify, I did not use the converter from the failed transmission. I used one from a 1983 2004R that was still operable, but had not been test driven. Since there was no torque converter noises, and it locked up quickly (too quickly) during the test drive i'm guessing the converter i used was fine.

 

[challengermike]

My best guess would be as sticking pressure regulator valve in the pump.I say that because you said you had no line pressure rise.And you know that the tv cable is moving.Unless the cables not connect to the tv rod at the trans correctly.

 

[350Rocket]

The end of the story on this trans, we failed to make it work. On Saturday we pulled the valve body out, to install a shift improver kit and reassemble. We found one of the very large springs broken (can't remember the name of the part now), figured that maybe it was causing the problem. Replaced the broken spring and reinstalled the valve body with the shift kit. Roadtested and it drove exactly the same as before (no line pressure rise, shifts through all the gears by 30mph and lockup immediately in 3rd. I forgot to mention that the donor trans was a known good unit when the car was still operable but the car was wrote off, flipped over into a creek at high speed, so now I'm thinking something got screwed up during the accident. The TV setup definitely was not the problem anyway.

So later that night I started pulling the 2004R from my old 87 Caprice with 170k miles on it (which I road tested earlier that day - trans still working almost perfect) then removed the bum trans from the 89 Caprice once again. Installed the trans and tv cable from the 87 Caprice and set the tv cable. For some reason the cable on this car didn't fit right in the car either, wouldn't allow full throttle on the TBI, but anyways we tried it and it was decent. It shifts just slightly later than it should, but very fast, crisp shifts. Now the trans is the least of my problems, but I will try and get a universal cable, so I can get it set properly and get WOT.

Thanks to everyone that helped.

Mike