'87 T-type idle ok but falls on it's face HELP!

[Beamer]

When being a TB owner, it really helps to have a spare good running car for troubleshooting with in the garage.

Know this is not feasable for most of us, find yourself some local TB buddies to help out and get help from. That will be your best resource.

There is a proceedure for testing the coil but it is not s for sure indication that it is good. I can't seem to find the specs of what to look for, but here is a great site for reference info on our cars... The Grand National / T-Type / Turbo Regal Buick Spring Cleaning Guide This is a greaqt starting point for you with your car when just getting into the TR scene. I am thinking that the coil resistance test is there somewhere, but just can't find it right now.

Did you replace wires?

It does sound like a bad MAF, as mentioned - you can't trust the calibration on the stock style for our cars today. If you plan to do anything to the car, get a LT1 or LS1 MAF and translater. The only reason to keep an origonal is if you are restoring the car as such.



Mike

 

[BuickMike]

I wish I saw this earlier. I can't believe nobody told you to look for any leaks between the MAF and the throttle body before sending you off to get a new MAF. If you are getting unmetered air in there, your car will do exactly what it is doing, hence the bad MAF statements. If you have the OEM tube between the turbo and the MAF take it off and check for rips. I say take it off because you will need to look over the whole thing and bend it in all directions to see if it is torn or not. Check the clamps too and make sure they're tight. Check the gasket on the inlet bell of the turbo where it meets the housing and make sure it is not leaking. Check the connections from turbo to intercooler, intercooler to up-pipe and up-pipe to throttle body. If all that looks good, pull the intercooler and inpect for leaks or have it pressure tested.

I hope you still have the old MAF. If it is a OEM AC Delco unit, put it back in when you fix the problem and ditch the reman one. They are junk.

 

[turbo39151]

What are your IAC and TPS set at?

 

[nitron]

I'm having same problem. have changed about every sensor there is and never thought about checking for air leaks from Maf to tb. Thanks buickmike

 

[short_dustin]

Man, I can't thank you guys enough for the help with starting points to track this thing down. It'll be the weekend before I can mess with it (busy finishing the baby's room during the week) I will keep everyone posted on what I find this weekend. Thanks!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

4 yrs sitting w/ gas in the injectors could well be the cause. A new tank, etc, and clean fuel may not "wash" the crud out of the injs...
I get them from the local salvage yard when the customer complains that the engine is not right.... Some are real SCARY when I look in the filter baskets.

SEAFOAM WILL NOT dissolve rust, galvanizing flakes, chunks of hose liner...All items I find.

 

[BuickMike]

Good point chuck. The problem has to be unmetered air / lack of fuel / bad spark (I would check them in that order). If I were a to net money on this, my vote would be on a torn MAF to turbo hose. Like I mentioned before,check your connections from the turbo on and make sure the intercooler doesn't somehow have a hole in it.

Also, what spark plugs did you put in and what did you gap them to? Once I replaced my plugs with some Autolite platinums. I think they were pre-gapped pretty wide. The car idled ok, but would pretty much die once I got it in gear. I would use standard 1 step colder resistor plugs in your car. AC Delco R43TS are fine. Gap them to .035. Let us know what you have. People give good advice here, but never tell you to check the basics first. Please look at what I have mentioned before diging too deep.

 

[nitron]

What ever you do check what buickmike tells you cuz my problem was an inter cooler hose disconnected

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban imput

For those wishing to retain the stock original AC Delco mass air flow sensor that GM used on the 1986-1987 Turbo Regals we are perhaps the only source that actually gets the ORIGINAL ONES we rebuilt and come with a warranty.

While its true rebuilt parts of any type can be a problem knock on wood we have had great success with these and we have cores in stock. Part of the issue is a Camaro V6 mass air flow is sometimes modifed to replace the stock one.

We been selling our rebuilt ones for several years same source does our powermaster brake units.

Granted new will always win out over rebuilt but the only option currently for a stock one is a factory rebuilt one. It has a warranty.

As its been pointed out be sure to check other possible issues before blaming the mass air flow sensor....Its like replacing the brake bowl....most times that is the issue but sometimes its another problem.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

there will always be a demand for an original rebuilt one...its a decision individual owners have to make concerning their own cars.

 

[short_dustin]

Good point chuck. The problem has to be unmetered air / lack of fuel / bad spark (I would check them in that order). If I were a to net money on this, my vote would be on a torn MAF to turbo hose. Like I mentioned before,check your connections from the turbo on and make sure the intercooler doesn't somehow have a hole in it.

Also, what spark plugs did you put in and what did you gap them to? Once I replaced my plugs with some Autolite platinums. I think they were pre-gapped pretty wide. The car idled ok, but would pretty much die once I got it in gear. I would use standard 1 step colder resistor plugs in your car. AC Delco R43TS are fine. Gap them to .035. Let us know what you have. People give good advice here, but never tell you to check the basics first. Please look at what I have mentioned before diging too deep.

Mike,

I used NGK v-powers gapped to .30. I took the MAF to turbo hose off today and it had a small tear in it so I wrapped it with electrical tape to seal it up. Where can I get a replacement one? Either way I sealed it up and it is still running like crap. Should I change the plugs again? It's idling alright but it sounds like a miss. The following web address is a video of it idling for everyone to see and hear and tell me what ya think. 1987 Buick T-Type Rough Idle - YouTube

 

[BuickMike]

That exhaust sounds weird. Does it have a hole somewhere? From the video it almost sounds like a bad leak on the crossover pipe or something. It does sound like its missing. Pull all your plugs and look at them. See if one looks fouled. Maybe even pull the plug on one injector at a time and fire it up to determine which cylinder has the miss. Hmmmm, could even be bad injectors too. That thing idles horrible. Even with my MAF unplugged my car will idle and rev smooth. I'll bet Kirbans has a replacement hose. You could also get a solid one from one of TB.com's several supporting vendors. I have a RJC 3" and I'm very happy with it. Does the turbo inlet bell still have a line to the passenger side valve cover breather? Check that for leaks and try plugging it off at the turbo to see what happens. Do a compression check on all the cylinders. Do you have a vacuum gauge? Check your vacuum at idle. It should be above 10in for sure. Are all the vacuum lines ok? How about the PCV valve? That's all I can think of at this point. After hearing your car I think you have more issues than just the unmetered air. Don't just throw parts at it though. Use process of elimination to get it figured out.

 

[short_dustin]

Well I've done some of my checking and the fuel pressure is 38psi with the line off and goes to 32 with the line one. The vacuum is 16in, and I'm replacing the PCV valve and spark plugs here in a few. I sure hope I get it figured out soon...

 

[short_dustin]

I just checked my TPS with key on engine off and at idle it's .34V and WOT is 3.01V. Is that right?

 

[groumoutis]

.42 to .46 at the low end and that should set the wot. You adjust for the idle not the wot. I have noticed that if I set it at .42 with the engine off it goes up to .43 or .44 while running. That is still in range though. Once you adjust the tps you will have to adjust the iac then go back to the tps and back again. It takes a little patience.

Your fuel pressure is low as well. Line off pressure is supposed to be 43 psi with the line off then around 39 psi line on. If you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator then you can adjust it to 43 with the line off. As you can tell you are way low.

 

[short_dustin]

I could have swore is was supposed to be 37 line off but I'm not arguing, after all my troubleshooting I think I've figured it out! I was listening to the car and decided to pull one injector plug at a time and when I pulled the drivers side closest to the firewall it made no difference at all...same miss as usual. So if anyone has a cheap set of stock injectors for sale I'll take them!

Groumoutis, will my pressure be good enough to gently drive the car around my neighborhood? I've got a guy wanting to buy the car and I just want it to run right.

 

[short_dustin]

I saw that I can buy one injector from autozone for $40, is that a good idea or should I avoid injectors from parts stores?

 

[TurboDave]

.42 to .46 at the low end and that should set the wot. You adjust for the idle not the wot..

Unfortunately that's incorrect information. The WOT and idle values can be set as needed. After 25 years of doing this, tricks are learned. Loosening both tps screws enough to allow you to pull the tps all the way forward in its slots will give the highest WOT setting, now tighten both screws just enough to hold it in place. Loosen the top screw enough to allow you to rotate the tps (by tapping on the connector either up or down) either up or down as needed to set the idle value.

I have found that by leaving the tps all the way forward as far as it will go will always yield the highest WOT value. Then only slight nose up or down adjustments are needed to keep the idle value in spec.

As you stated, the ideal idle value is .40-.42 I prefer something closer to .40

 

[groumoutis]

You can drive it without getting into boost with those pressure. I have used set of factory injectors. They need new o-rings though. How much were you wanting to pay for them?

 

[fmster]

Have you done a compression test? especially the cylinder that the injector unplugged made no difference. The video sounds like a bad cylinder(bent valve). Good luck.

 

[short_dustin]

You can drive it without getting into boost with those pressure. I have used set of factory injectors. They need new o-rings though. How much were you wanting to pay for them?

I just ordered 1 injector from the local parts hut, for speed I want to get it running right asap. Thanks though.