Alky and the power plate

[Race Jace]

What we have found when running alky with the plate is they actually compliment each other. the plate helps distrubute the alky evenly when it is injected in the up pipe.

When you inject alky without the plate #5,6 and 3 get more alky than the other cylinders.

 

[d0n_3d]

excellent! I keep preaching at work to try and sell your plate...it really does work...I mean I am running almost 27 psi of boost and I have yet to see detonation at all with my alky...the only fear I have now is running too lean on the chip!

guys...the plate flat out works if you are bone stock or have a 10 second combo...well worth the measly cost of $60 for the plate! talk about cheap insurance!

 

[salvageV6]

Thanks for the info.

You sure that thing works?

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by Race Jace

When you inject alky without the plate #5,6 and 3 get more alky than the other cylinders.

How did you perform this test? What were the specifics on the motor tested as to intake, head, cam. All stock, ported, polished, EGR removed or not, what plenum, what throttle body, at how much boost was the test performed, using what turbo and IC..

Need more specifics as to the mule used and how the data was arrived at. Then what style nozzle, where it was placed, at how much PSI was the liquid being injected into the motor...

I would think without the plate using an NOS nozzle you would get more in the rear cylinders.

Post back the results and how they were arrived at

PS, I too run a plate.. just getting info

 

[Race Jace]

we performed the test on our test bench where we originally designed the plate. We ran many tests and so many combinations. Here is our conclusion. we tested it with the stock manifold and stock heads 1st no plate. With out the plate the alky was carried by the air stream. where the most air was there was the most alky. we then restricted the rear cylinders at the valve opening to see what would happen with the alky mix. in this test was what revield what was happening. even though the more air was coming out of the front cylindeers than the first test the rear cylinders were more saturated with alky. Once we added the plate the alky distribution was the most even.

The distribution did not change when we changed the heads, manifold, amount of alky or the injection nozzle size or pattern.

Every test done since then supported our original findings.

 

[Razor]

So the test wasn't done on a running motor.

And the alcohol wasnt subjected to the high temps associated with high boost. My curiousity is what happens when you hit the alcohol with 150 degrees and its effects on distribution.

Would be neat to find someone with 6 EGT's monitoring temps to do a before and after.

 

[Race Jace]

Originally posted by Razor
So the test wasn't done on a running motor.

Sorry if i was not clear. This particular test was done on the bench. This test best describes what is going on inside the motor that is why i used it as an example. we have done several motor tests and they backed up what we found on the bench.

Because of the cooling affect of the alky inlet temps drop to ambient or below. The air can only hold so much alky. once all the evaporation takes place the air charge still becomes saturated with alky and we see the same thing in the motor as we do on the bench.

We also have a plenum that we machined and installed a sight window so we could actually see if the alky was "puddling" on the plate or how it was affecting the alky. the plate remained dry. this was on the bench so we could not bennifit from the higher inlet temps accociated with a running motor as you mentioned and yes this does negate this affect somewhat.

As far as the 6 chanel EGT test goes, if you look at the temerature drop with alky and no plate it drops the temperature more on cyls 56&3 than the rest of them. these are the hottest without the the alky. this too backs up the bench tests.

 

[VernLee]

I too run the plate and alky, my test consisted of putting right foot to the floor, after run had big smile ear to ear, Yep! it works just fine.

 

[BoostKillsStres]

So Jason, not to hijack your thread but similar question,
Would it also be fair so say that someone crazy like me, running a 7th inj full time to help cool the intake air charge(20 degrees by the way just during normal driving) would also expect pretty even cyl to cyl fuel distribution? I was wondering this....

 

[Razor]

My car runs a PCV and the plate gets covered with an oil film. If the alky puddled on the plate, there would be no oil film on it.

So when the alky gets hit with temps above 80 degrees, it mixes into the air really well. Plate then helps it into the cylinders.

PS.. I'd like one of those plenums with a sight window.. that would have tremendous bling bling

 

[Race Jace]

Originally posted by Razor

#1So when the alky gets hit with temps above 80 degrees, it mixes into the air really well. Plate then helps it into the cylinders.

#2 PS.. I'd like one of those plenums with a sight window.. that would have tremendous bling bling

#1 I don't know what your are saying here.

#2 ya it would look cool but we don't put much boost to it on the bench and would not trust it against vacuum and boost

with the 7th, if you are injecting it far enough down stream of the t.b. that the fuel can mix with the air evenly before it enters the plenum then it would work the same.

 

[Razor]

Jason,
The flash point on alcohol is way lower than that of water. Simply.. laymans test is you pour some alcohol on your hands.. blow on it.. it disappears rather quickly. Same experiment with water.. takes a lot of hot air to get to disappear.

Look at the jets used with a water injection kit. They are very very small and produce a very fine mist.. reason so it can be consumed with the air traveling past the nozzle. On the other hand, alcohol can be run with a much larger nozzle.. and due to a lower flash point 80 degrees vs 180 on water.. its flashes with a little heat.. and saturates the air thoroughly.

Now the temps leaving your turbo are 10 degrees per PSI. At 30 PSI its 300+ambient= 380 degrees. Your IC brings those temps down.. the bigger the IC.. the more the reduction. But still your looking at 130-140 degrees at best with the largest IC. Much higher than 80(flash) so your covered.

Guys that run into this problem were using the NOS style nozzles for shooting alcohol into the motor. The fix was point the nozzle against the airflow.. Problem was more prevalent on cold winter mornings, with a cold IC, and a cold engine. As far as distribution..

You dont want liquid shot into the motor, but a mist that totally saturates the air charge(atomization). Thats what fuel injectors do. Not squirt. hence why temperature plays a role, as does the nozzle used.

That plenum window would be sooo cool. The chicks would be all over me with one of those.. Mount a camera to it with a in cab TV.. the possibilities are endless. Voyeur Plenum.. Then some neon to go around it.

Vacuum is way over-rated

 

[TurboTR]

Jason any chance we could do these tests with nitrous injected well ahead of the tb? Not fuel, just nitrous alone. I was thinking about a view window and such as well; sounds like you have that covered already. I have a BGC intake so would be interested in testing that plate with the hose. Also, any way to mount a large capacity MAF meter in the intake stream of your air pump? I'd like to see what the MAF does with and without the plate installed. I'd be willing to fly out to Nevada wth an appropriate sized F*rd or SCT MAF meter in hand and would love to see and work the tests with you.

TurboTR

 

[joed]

a thought

Anyone ever used an alky system to inject C16 race gas? Or a standard 7th injector setup injecting alky? Just wondering how these could work. Gotta have the site plenum tho

 

[salvageV6]

It wouldn't be all that hard to make a camera setup or even a small sight glass into a plenum.

Then again how are you going to evaluate what you see?

Tough to stand on the engine when WOT under load.

 

[Razor]

Joe, the pump would have to be fuel compatible. And negates the reason for doing the alky. See the properties are way different. Oxygen content is different as well, and the volume would probably have to come down to one half.

Starts to sound like an ATR 7th with its own fuel supply.

You'll get more bang per buck with alcohol.

Need a new thread in the "new products" section of the board.