Alky kit install went well, but something really bad happened!

[540Malibu]

if it were mine i'd have one of the shops that build the tranny's spec. for turbo buicks send me a transmission that is made for a non lockup type converter. Like the th350s/400's use.

 

[bishir]

Okay, I called some shops and I must say I was dissapointed with most of them. One guy started talking about his Monty SS, and another didn't even know the car had a lock up torque converter. I then decided on a place that came with high recommendations from some guys in the local street rodder club. One even said they did an outstanding job on his El Camino with a 200-4r. When I called them I asked to talk to the owner and he seemed to know these transmissions. I decided to go with them for a rebuild. Quote: 900-1100 for a performance rebuilt. Then someone else was asking for directions for the flatbed (which I specified) and asked what kind of car it is. I told him 1987 Grand National. Then he asked what color, and I said "Black."

I'm nervous

If this wasn't my daily driver I'd be learning how to rebuild my own transmission today.

You should see the wife's face when she found out how much it is going to cost.


James

 

[blackbuick87]

Can someone tell me why the tranny has to be rebuilt if the convertor goes? What does it take with it when it lets go?

 

[NC87GN]

If your looking for a rebuild you should consider PTS billet roller assembly. It comes as a complete unit assembled and is backed by a reputable vendor. Its an easy install once you recieve. The 9X11 is also a good choice. You get what you pay for with convertors. If you plan on keeping the car its a good investment.

Mike Banas
87GN

 

[machinegun]

Before you take your car to anybody, I would recommend you contact CAL hartline at hartline performance. He should be able to recommend someone good with GN transmissions. The Gn's use a BRF code tranny that uses a different VB among other parts. Due to the stress that these trans endure under boost, most trans builders do not dream of these cars making the torque they do and as such usually underestimate the scope of this type of project. I would also call Bruce at PTS and ask if he knows anybody in that area. Hope this helps and good luck

 

[turbo buicks]

blackbuick87, a converter is a fluid coupler and uses fluid to transfer and multiply torque. everything that determines its stall, and how it works is determined by the angle of the fins in the converter. if its damaged and the fins get bent then the whole thing messes up b/c its isnt tranferring fluid correctly. if the TQ converter breaks and pieces go flying around in your tranny it obviously isnt useable anymore and it will take the tranny with it. plus when stuff like pumps go bad it could starve the tranny of fluid and burn up parts. im no tranny expert by far but as i have heard this is what can/does happen when a converter goes.

 

[Two Lane]

James,

Can you list for us what parts the shop is furnishing as part of the price they gave you?

I guess what has me concerned is they've given you a price, but they've not pulled & examined the trans to see specifically what it needs.

What usually happens next is: they examine the trans & the prob can be cured for less than the quote, so it's extra $$$ for them.

And, if they take a look, and the probs are worse, they simply jack on more $$$ to their quote.

Either way, you lose. No matter how good the work is, no one can give you a "Miss Cleo" quote, unless they have x-ray eyes.

My guess is a fresh HD D5 & fluid/filter change would have gotten you back on the road. That is MY guess...and that would be lots less than the quote. Not being there to examine it all 1st-hand, that is just ANOTHER guess. If I were right, that would have gotten you back on highway, saving up for a full & real HD rebuild
at a more convenient time.

Hope this shop will point out exactly what's bad before doing anything un-itemized, un-approved, or un-needed.

Posted from concern for you, your wife, and your budget!

Lots of tranny-shops actually only do R & R's from existing inventory of different transmissions...anything beyond tightening fluid lines maxes them out. A TV- cable adjustment is like MAJOR for some!

Just keep repeating BRF...BRF...BRF. Take nothing less.

(Posted from concern for you, your wife, and your budget!)

Really hope all goes smoothly, James!

 

[Grumpy]

HAVE YOUR ORIGINAL TRANNY DONE!!!! DONT LET THEM THROW IN ANOTHER ONE FROM THE SHELF THATS READY TO GO!!!!

soory for shouting BUT its very important!!

 

[Justaveesix]

Any update? have you found out what the problem is?

 

[bishir]

I made another post on this titled "I'm starting to feel better..."


I don't know what's wrong with it yet, but the transmission guy is a friend of a friend who's really into Corvettes, Harleys, and other high performance cars. He completely understood that the car's value will depend on originality so he asked for time to do some research and do the job right. I agreed with him and provided him with everything you guys have been saying, plus 200-4R strengthening tips from Bruce's website. As soon as I find out what's wrong I'll let you guys know, but if I was laying it all on the line I'd be converter.

Thanks,

James

 

[JordanCVP]

can't really help as to what it might have been, but my buddy had an old '92 Ford F-150 with around 260,000 miles on it... no engine rebuild but it had gone through two transmissions prior, and he tried to double-tap into second gear and got a huge sharp BANG and some tire-squeak over that. He thought it was awesome until he stopped and tried to accelerate... and the exact same thing you described happened. He revved to about 3000 and barely moved. Transmission #3!

 

[bishir]

I guess what has me concerned is they've given you a price, but they've not pulled & examined the trans to see specifically what it needs.

Two Lane,

I know the owner because my neighbor built his shop, and it best friends with him. I'm good friends with my neighbor. When I talked to the owner this afternoon he said he has one guy who is really good with performance applications, and he's going to be the one working on my car after he finished the twin turbo Z. He said the price includes a full rebuild. When I asked about reusing the converter he said he will replace that because it sounds like it's toast anyways. I have asked for them to save all broken parts so I can take pictures for my webpage. He is also going to call Art Carr transmissions and see what they recommend. I gave him Bruce's web address and recommend he check that and he said that he will. Basically, nothing is going to get done until he contacts me with what he finds. I'm trying to be very cautious because this car is very important to me and I want it done right. I tried to get this point across and I almost felt like I was being anoying, but he stayed there and listened to me. He is very highly respected in the car community here. His shop even hosts a car show every year.

Do I walk in there tomorrow and tell him NOT to replace certain items? Does the valve body get replaced in a typical transmission rebuild?

I'm expecting a durable transmission when I'm done. He asked my expectations and I said I want it to handle 400hp and 500ft lbs of torque. He said that's doable. I'm going to take his word on that and see what he has to offer me tomorrow.

Something else I wanted to ask everyone....

Do you expect a warrenty on a performance transmission?

Thanks again for the replies,

James

 

[turbo buicks]

IIRC, my guy (Victory Trans) said that the VB usually doesnt get replaced unless its messed up. mine wasn't messed up but it just had some weird crap that Aamco had done to it in it and he fixed all that. TCI sells BRF valvebodies for the GNs. Victory gave me a 6 month warranty on mine and i came in b/c it did something weird and he fixed it right away w/o asking and even showed me around his shop that day. it was the TV cable that had gotten out of adjustment.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Originally posted by bishir
Do I walk in there tomorrow and tell him NOT to replace certain items? Does the valve body get replaced in a typical transmission rebuild?

I'm expecting a durable transmission when I'm done. He asked my expectations and I said I want it to handle 400hp and 500ft lbs of torque. He said that's doable. I'm going to take his word on that and see what he has to offer me tomorrow.

Something else I wanted to ask everyone....

Do you expect a warrenty on a performance transmission?

Thanks again for the replies,

James

No, the valvebody is not replaced on a typical trans. rebuild. And yes, you should expect a warranty on your transmission. although every shop is different, unless you only use the car for all out racing, then you should expect some form of a warranty. usually on a off-road and/or racing application I give the customer 1/2 of our normal warranty, due to the substantial abuse it will receive.
As far as telling him what to, and not to replace... tell him you definitely want an upgraded pump (has more veins in it), and new steels to go along with the clutches. other than that... im sure you can figure out the rest from Bruce's web page and other sources.

HTH

 

[Two Lane]

James,

Sounds like you're in honest hands...Whewwwwwww...I was worried!

Sounds like you're a politely assertive fellow, with excellent interpersonal skills. Making your expectations clear helps on both sides of transactions. Constructive clarification is a wonderful skill.

You've made the best out of a misfortune, and you are simply making an (unscheduled) investment by doing it right the first time!

Please do continue your very thoughtful/helpful photos on your website.

Thumbs up on how you're handling this...you honor your parents.

TL

 

[bishir]

Hey everyone,

I found out what was wrong with the transmission today!

To find who the winners are of the guess the cause of my transmission failure game click on my transmission page below!

http://members.cox.net/bishir/id40.htm


I just wanted to say that I appreciated all the help so far and I look forward to anything anyone else might want to say. I just wondered what people did before the Internet!

...and Two Lane you're not so bad yourself

James

 

[salvageV6]

Why do you need U-Joints?

As opposed to rebuilding a D5 you can pick them up used for about $60. Better check the rebuild pricing.

Just keeping you on page 1.

 

[bishir]

The U-joints were clunking before I took it in so I asked to have the replaced as well. I thought having the original rebuilt would be better than throwing in a used one from another transmission. I asked about a 2800 stall, but that isn't in my budget right now unfortunally.