Alternative Ignition Setup

[bruce]

As you may or may not know the later 3800s, have an ignition system called the *Quick Start*. It uses 2 crank pulley interupter rings. One 3x, (like the stock GN one), and one 18x. Then by looking at which set of windows open in what order the module can figure out what coil to fire, with out having to wait for a cam synch signal. So it is in fact *Quick Starting*.

I found a dead 97 S/C crank pulley and robbed the rings off of it, and had a friend machine up a little adapter ring. Then cut the rings to enable bolting them on, and then by using long bolts, they also form *studs* for the crank pulley to bolt to.

And it definitely starts Quicker. Much Quicker.

I can say as fact the dwell control is different in the module, but the car sure idles nicer.

And this would be handy for someone using a batch fire system, since it eliminates the need for the cam sensor.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Howdy,

would this allow you to skip the normal balancer and go for say the ATI one which lacks the crank sensor ring? I'm going internal balance and while I have an Indy Lites balancer with ring I'd like to step up to a real dampener versus the blanancer hub but can't afford the near $500 BHJ unit. This will definately help the cause for going internal balance for those of us still running the orginal ECM.

Thanks,

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by CTX-SLPR
would this allow you to skip the normal balancer and go for say the ATI one which lacks the crank sensor ring?

I don't know. If you wanted to bring the parts over some evening we could probably figure it out. BTW, I'm just over near Greenville, about 35 miles away from you/WPAFB.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I might just have to do that Bruce, there's a 67 parts car up there I need to check out too. Send me your number or something and I'll give you a ring.

 

[bruce]

For those that emailed me for pics, here's some and more of an explaination of what's involved.

http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25469#post25469

 

[Sleeper]

ttt

 

[Sleeper]

For those that are interested, I have crossed most of the 18x module pins to our ECM, (go to http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25469#post25469 to see latest attached pinout sheet)
What is left is our Pin (B5 crank ref hi ) Either Pin C or D from the newer modules connects to it, but I haven't figured out which one yet.
(Sorry about the below formatting, I can't make it work)
Pin 88 Park Ave 92 Park Ave 95 Bonneville
C Crank Hi Ref 18x Spark Reference Spark Reference
D Crank Ref Hi Fuel Control Fuel Control

And if “Spark Reference” & “Fuel Control” refer to “Crank Hi Ref”
And 12v vs 10v sensor feed?

(There also will be one Pin output left over)

Any input is appreciated
Thanks
Paul

 

[turbodave231]

Bruce,

Take a closer look at the 3800 3x interrupter ring. It's not quite like the early 3.0 and 3.8. You'll notice that the 3 windows are all different sizes. As long as the module sees the 18x signal and any one of the 3X signal, the module can determine which coil to fire.

The 3800 module will work and start without the 18X signal, but it can't determine which coil to fire without seeing a cam signal. without the 18x you don't have "Fast start". So the module needs either the 18x or a cam signal to start ignition events.

The 2-5 window is the most narrow which is why a 3800 exhibits a 2-5 miss when the crank sensor magnet becomes weak in a 3800 (fastest event).

When you refer to the "Dwell" being different, do you mean the EST timing signal (white wire)?

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by turbodave231

Take a closer look at the 3800 3x interrupter ring. It's not quite like the early 3.0 and 3.8. You'll notice that the 3 windows are all different sizes. As long as the module sees the 18x signal and any one of the 3X signal, the module can determine which coil to fire.

The 3800 module will work and start without the 18X signal, but it can't determine which coil to fire without seeing a cam signal. without the 18x you don't have "Fast start". So the module needs either the 18x or a cam signal to start ignition events.

The 2-5 window is the most narrow which is why a 3800 exhibits a 2-5 miss when the crank sensor magnet becomes weak in a 3800 (fastest event).

When you refer to the "Dwell" being different, do you mean the EST timing signal (white wire)?

I said *like*, not same as
Yes, the 3 windows are different.

Yes.

Ok.

No, the time the *points* are closed for *charging* the coil, is what I meant. *Points* being the time they are closed in non-EST mode, ie when the ecm isn't conrolling the timing. The intial spark with the Quick Start seems *brighter*, *bluer*, *louder*. Not very scientific, I know, but it all seems to fit together, in the way it performs. One of these days, I'll have a little LCD scope for looking closer at this stuff.