vacuum 6
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 2,445
makes sense 6 had tuning issues.
Any issues running alcohol and e85?
- Thread starter Dhos1
- Start date
Welcome!
By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
- Messages
- 5,759
Modern ECU's have safeties available for things like AFR and fuel pressure. These safeties watch for AFR running too lean, or fuel pressure not keeping up. When one of these safety monitors activates it shuts off the injectors in order to protect the engine from an impending meltdown. When running an ignition module like a stock ignition or a TR6 you do not have the option of shutting off spark too. In this situation, the alcohol injection system is still going and injecting methanol, so you get a super lean condition (engine at WOT, alky injection on, ignition on, and injectors off).
Try not to let that happen with your setup.
Try not to let that happen with your setup.
THensley gave air temp data
With his turbo system.
There is more horsepower per lb of boost when the air is cooler and there is a rule of thumb but there are variables that can affect the power as the motor is an air pump
Because if you don't have the intercooler to get the temps down enough and the backpressure low enough to move the air with a turbo that has its tongue out (super heating the air) the power won't be what it can or even controllable to reproduce passes at a consistent power level.
This is just one situation where liquid intercoolers,sparaying nitrous in or out of the piping or alky injection with further distances from the intake shine.
Don't you think there should be more definition of how the alky is being used?
By what I read
Your scenario is a car that is spraying alky for fuel displacement.
Say a 15 to 30%
Am I correct?
That is a tuning issue
The alky curve or stage needs to be turned on much later
Just to add maybe be clearer
E85 and methanol will lower the temps more than 30 degrees more than gasoline.
Both fuels will pull heat out of the area where they are injected into.
vacuum 6
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 2,445
please explain "further distances from the intake shine".
Intercoolers require time to cool the air charge
Distance is a strategy that helps
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
- Messages
- 5,759
Yes that would be the typical or more common setup (ie a typical alky control kit install)
A setup injecting much much more methanol from an auxiliary system that's not controlled by the engine computer would be in a similar / same situation, rendering the safety shutdown system ineffective when it sees that something has gone wrong.
Using direct coil control instead of an ignition module would allow the ECU to cut spark and provide some protection.
Running a 2nd fuel system for M85 (or whatever fuel) with a second set of injectors (12V switched) would also allow the ECU to maintain control and protect the engine. Plus you'd have the benefit of closed loop AFR control.
If E85 goes away, I'll be engineering "dual fuel" fuel systems for my cars. Like turbo1dr has been doing for years on his malibu.
I have a lot to learn about e85 and spraying ALKY but it can't be that hard to learn as Ill be baby stepping it. I can't spell worthy hoot but I know 185 degree IAT is not going to be the best thing to shove down a 231 throat and hope to make a Hell Cat run home with his teal tucked between his legs.
Today I don't see it as added fuel to my fuel, but cooling, yes it is passing the intake valve as burnable fuel., we can meter it in and measure the results out.
It was not a guessing game with the OE ECU and the new ECU makes it even easer.
Finding the coolest air we can, to be sucked down the engine has be an edge old speed not trick but fact.
I find it odd that so many just hang a big open filter under a hot hood and call it good. Just more work to cool the air charge.
I see a lot of 900 hp capable turbos going high 10's making just 500 mathematical horsepower. Yes there getting the job dune and doing a darn fine job putting the LS and mustang to sham. and when they asked what size turbo I was running and I said 58 mm. most could not believe me and one called me a lier. That was my old combo.I get this new combo sorted out it will send a lot of them home butt hurt.
Today I don't see it as added fuel to my fuel, but cooling, yes it is passing the intake valve as burnable fuel., we can meter it in and measure the results out.
It was not a guessing game with the OE ECU and the new ECU makes it even easer.
Finding the coolest air we can, to be sucked down the engine has be an edge old speed not trick but fact.
I find it odd that so many just hang a big open filter under a hot hood and call it good. Just more work to cool the air charge.
I see a lot of 900 hp capable turbos going high 10's making just 500 mathematical horsepower. Yes there getting the job dune and doing a darn fine job putting the LS and mustang to sham. and when they asked what size turbo I was running and I said 58 mm. most could not believe me and one called me a lier. That was my old combo.I get this new combo sorted out it will send a lot of them home butt hurt.
That's the theory and sometimes the ecu can protect an engine depending on the situation.
On the faster cars things are moving too fast and if things fail and not gradually go away the system can't save it.
It is easier to get a car dialed in on one fuel as opposed to mixing them unless the % of use or displacement is less.
I love e85 keep that corn comin
Drop the iats down wrll under 100 degrees with backpressure down and the boost up and watch how much more power you make
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Messages
- 4,411
I've seen posted data years ago that proved, spray the alky as far away from the intake as possible and the temps drop more.
I don't recall the exact data of Pre-Turbo Nozzle size but there's an amount that was enough to make to turbo gain 1 psi and help in some temp drop and faster spool (as long as the turbo isn't all in, my current combo on the TA49 was tapped and saw no gain unlike my prior tests years before on a different combo that did see 1psi).
There's also tests of pre and post intercooler alky and those results, if I recall, weren't worth the possible core erosion for a few degrees lower.
Spool, I think there's an intake temp number that even if lower, it's not much of a gain like, 90 degrees vs 80 degrees nets almost 0 gain in power. 100 to 90 nets very minimal and not worth the $ to get there.
What have you seen/tested?
I don't recall the exact data of Pre-Turbo Nozzle size but there's an amount that was enough to make to turbo gain 1 psi and help in some temp drop and faster spool (as long as the turbo isn't all in, my current combo on the TA49 was tapped and saw no gain unlike my prior tests years before on a different combo that did see 1psi).
There's also tests of pre and post intercooler alky and those results, if I recall, weren't worth the possible core erosion for a few degrees lower.
Spool, I think there's an intake temp number that even if lower, it's not much of a gain like, 90 degrees vs 80 degrees nets almost 0 gain in power. 100 to 90 nets very minimal and not worth the $ to get there.
What have you seen/tested?
I've had the cars below 50 degrees
Let's say there's more power there than at 80 degrees
That's not what we've seen
When the turbine wheel cannot let the exhaust out (backpressure) the power game is over.
The is a point where the turbo becomes the restriction.
On a 49 the compressor will be done before the turbine wheel and as you approach that the air temps will heat up.
I found An air to air intercooler (vertical flow or horizontal flow)will not pull enough hot air out and adding additional cooling created more power till the turbine wheel was done.
