Anyone run E85 in a GN yet?

[wilkinshc]

If you have not heard of E85 yet, it is 85% ethonal and 15%. It is becoming available in the midwest and it has over 100 octane. Many of the newer vehicles have been able to run it since 1999. I have ran it in my 2003 suburban for about 2 yrs. The Suburban seems more responsive with the only draw back being mileage dropped for 16mpg to abut 15mpg. While traveling this summer through Neb. ,Colo., and So. Dak. I saw it for as low as 85 cents a gallon. Here in New Mexico its 20 cents lower to the same price. I was planning on trying it once I get my hybrid going but was wondering if anyone else had tried it already? If so did you need to change anything in the chip?


Thanks
Chuck

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I was going to run it in my EFI 69 GTO. But there are a lot of things you need to do to run this fuel.

First, its 105 octane, 85% Alcohol and 15% 87 octane.
( This is what the engineer told me over the phone ).

You need to run 40% more of this fuel due to it having much lower btu levels. That means injectors that are 40% bigger and a fuel pump that can push that much more volume. Most likely a 11 second car needs either a huge 1000hp pump or a double pumper. Aside from the fact that the fuel pump and system must be alky ready, which our GN pumps are not alky ready.

E85 cars are not the best winter cars as they have been proven to have a harder time starting as the temps get colder and colder. One test could not even start the car under 10 degrees on it.

I do not see the benefit to running this until tons of gas stations have it so you are not stranded somewhere, and remember, $1 a gallon really is $1.40 which still kicks ass though. Its around $1.80 out here and not really worth running due to all the $$ spent on getting the car ready to run it. Alky injection would be a much better investment and performance gain.

 

[Swede2]

But if you already have alky injection... How much does the alky injection compensate ? Can you take away about 20 percent gas if you drive with alky injection ?

That would do that you only have to drive like 20-30 % more ethanol than gas... am I on the right track ? Julio, how much can your alky compensate ?

Daniel

 

[Razor]

Daniel,

Point is the entire fuel system has to be alcohol compatible. That itself is an issue. Then the fuel delivery is going to have to be increased by 2. So if you run 009's.. you'll need 83's. The alcohol injection can make up 20-25 % of that fuel at WOT.. but to everything there is always some working on to get rite.

Remember I said entire fuel system. Starting at the gas tank, ending at the injectors.

 

[wilkinshc]

I think it needs to be looked at more closely, as I said in the first post my mileage went down from 16 mpg to 15-14mpg. So there no way that it takes 40% more fuel or the injector increase as Razor says. If you need 2 times the injector I would expect my mileage to drop to 8 from 16. I have driven over 15,000 mileage on e85 alone with no problem or loss of mileage as stated. I have ran it in the winter (NM is not as harsh as Northern states) and had no problems starting it in 10-20f degree weather. Also I wouldn't drive the Camaro in the freezing weather anyway but it is something to consider and investigate.

I am starting a 73 camaro project with gn drivetrain, so I plan on swapping tanks, fuel pumps, and lines already. I have read a bit on e85 at www.e85fuel.com and it seems like the normal gn tank and normal upgrade fuel pumps would be fine. The gas stations can use the current tanks and pumps to sell e85 so I not sure that we would have to use a special pump or tank?

As for availability it is coming more and more avaliable, also my suburban can run on e85 or any mix of e85 & unleaded so I don't see why I can't set the camaro up the same way. Just use a thumbwheel to adjust timing tables to compensate for the octane. Any suggestions or ideas?

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers just want to get to the truth and see if it's a creditable option.

Please post any opinions!


Thanks
Chuck

 

[Swede2]

E85 is rather unknown here in Sweden to, but according to the gas companys here the things in it is: 11.5 % low octan gasoline, around 2 % MTBE and almost everything else is ethanol. I dont know why they call it E85 ??

Heated discussions goes here to... Some says you must change your fuel system, some have been driving it for 2-3 years without any issue. The only thing they do is to put on a adjustable fuel preasure regulator.

Chuck, I think Julio means under WOT conditions, I think it needs 40-50 % more fuel then, but not under "normal" driving.

E85 is not as corroding as many people think. But I dont know if I would want to put it in my TTA... thats a risk. I have already tested it in my alky injection and it went actually surprising good. I was getting knock at 17 psi without it, highed up to around 20-21 without knock. Just for testing, didnt use it on track or something. Methanol is still the undiscussionable best out there for injection.

Daniel

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Here are a few of the links I had saved in my old emails

www.westbioenergy.org/reports/55019/55019_final.htm
( this ones great, go down a bit to get to the good stuff )

www.westbioenergy.org/reports/55032/55032final.htm

If you get through the first link, you will see that this is not going to be cheap and that basic GN parts will NOT work if you want to drive this car for more than a 100 miles like the colleges car did after keeping the factory injectors.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by wilkinshc
If you have not heard of E85 yet, it is 85% ethonal and 15%. It is becoming available in the midwest and it has over 100 octane. Many of the newer vehicles have been able to run it since 1999. I have ran it in my 2003 suburban for about 2 yrs. The Suburban seems more responsive with the only draw back being mileage dropped for 16mpg to abut 15mpg. While traveling this summer through Neb. ,Colo., and So. Dak. I saw it for as low as 85 cents a gallon. Here in New Mexico its 20 cents lower to the same price. I was planning on trying it once I get my hybrid going but was wondering if anyone else had tried it already? If so did you need to change anything in the chip?

I've tried it a few times, while traveling.
It's brewed to require no changes to run it.
The sacrifice is that you will get lower MPG, and be down a few HP.

Lots of your average gasolines run up to 10% Alky already, so it's no huge change. It's just at 10%, and over, they have to say it is that high of content (10% here in OH, that is).

The chip is going to correct the fueling back to stoich, for all the closed loop running. The stock chips, IMO, run way too much timing at cruise anyway (for non-EGR applications).

 

[wilkinshc]

Dr Booster

That was some good reading. I have been to the site links from e85fuel.com that talked about the gas station's pumps, nozzles, hoses, and tanks. They are currently waiting UL approval on the standard pump nozzles and have already recieved approval on standard tanks which leads me to wonder if they have modified the E85 since those reports. I am going to look alot closer at my suburban and check out those part as stated in those reports and see if the 2003 models still have the modified parts.


Thanks for the info!

Chuck