Bosch WB vs. NTK WB

[GNVenom]

My question is:
Are they interchangeable? Has anyone used the Bosch sensor to replace the NTK in a FAST or GEN 7 system? There are wiring issues and the Bosch uses a different connector, but I think they're interchangeable.
Any ideas?

-John Spina

 

[BoostKillsStres]

The NTK vs. the LSU have different characteristics besides the cable and from the schematic notes I've seen of user buildable WB controllers there are circuit differences noted. Seems to deal with sensing the impedance of the sense cell.

 

[ijames]

The Innovate LM1 can handle either one, but you have to open up the case and move a jumper so it can't be as easy as you are hoping .

 

[aDFIguy]

You can't just swap the Bosch LSU 4.2 for the NTK sensor supplied with a Gen 7 system. The DFI WB controller is only set up for the response of the NTK piece and will give inaccurate readings when used with any other sensor. This is probably true of most WB setups you will run across unless they have some way of being told which sensor they are running.

As a side note, I'd stay away from any WB O2 setup based on the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor if you're either: (a) making > 400 HP, or (b) have any kind of boosted application. These conclusions are a result of some pretty extensive testing with NTK L1H1 and Bosch LSU 4.2 sensors operating side-by-side in the same pipe, and technical information supplied by Bosch about the LSU 4.2 sensor.

 

[turbobuick]

Originally posted by aDFIguy
You can't just swap the Bosch LSU 4.2 for the NTK sensor supplied with a Gen 7 system. The DFI WB controller is only set up for the response of the NTK piece and will give inaccurate readings when used with any other sensor. This is probably true of most WB setups you will run across unless they have some way of being told which sensor they are running.

As a side note, I'd stay away from any WB O2 setup based on the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor if you're either: (a) making > 400 HP, or (b) have any kind of boosted application. These conclusions are a result of some pretty extensive testing with NTK L1H1 and Bosch LSU 4.2 sensors operating side-by-side in the same pipe, and technical information supplied by Bosch about the LSU 4.2 sensor.

Can you elaborate on this a little?

The new 4.0 Gen 7 allows you to use any WBO2 and I know a lot of guys are using the innovate with the LSU sensor pretty successfully.

 

[Taffy]

Originally posted by aDFIguy
You can't just swap the Bosch LSU 4.2 for the NTK sensor supplied with a Gen 7 system. The DFI WB controller is only set up for the response of the NTK piece and will give inaccurate readings when used with any other sensor. This is probably true of most WB setups you will run across unless they have some way of being told which sensor they are running.

As a side note, I'd stay away from any WB O2 setup based on the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor if you're either: (a) making > 400 HP, or (b) have any kind of boosted application. These conclusions are a result of some pretty extensive testing with NTK L1H1 and Bosch LSU 4.2 sensors operating side-by-side in the same pipe, and technical information supplied by Bosch about the LSU 4.2 sensor.

Can you supply us with some technical info on this or point us to a website with that info?

The info that you have given goes against all the readings that we have seen with the LSU4.2 sensors being tested against NTK and Horiba sensors. (Not sure if the Horiba Wide Band units use the NTK or not.)

 

[MaxVO2]

As a side note, I'd stay away from any WB O2 setup based on the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor if you're either: (a) making > 400 HP, or (b) have any kind of boosted application. These conclusions are a result of some pretty extensive testing with NTK L1H1 and Bosch LSU 4.2 sensors operating side-by-side in the same pipe, and technical information supplied by Bosch about the LSU 4.2 sensor.


****I'd also be interested in seeing the data mentioned above as I have been using the Bosch 4.2 in a boosted application for a few weeks. I have access to a wideband reader with NTK setup, and although I have never had both installed at the same time, the data seem pretty dead-nuts on when looking at the data dump on the same car at same tune.

Thanks

Billy
Montgomery Village, MD

 

[JrTuner]

aDFIguy, I seem to remember that when the Gen 7 DFI first came out, their WBO2 option would not work in a boosted application (I know someone who had one and had to sell it because of this problem) and it used the NTK sensor. Then an "update" came out about a Type 1 sensor & a Type 2 sensor. With the Type 2 sensor working in a boosted application. And for some reason I don't think Accel even sells the Type 1 anymore. Can you explain this to us? Also as a "sidenote" I believe that Big Stuff 3 systems use the Bosch sensor in all horsepower & boosted application with no problems reported. I have also personally used an Innovate WBO2 meter in boosted application and found it to be almost dead on when compared to the NTK sensor. All of us here would surely appreciate any data to back up the information that you posted. And saying that we at Accel don't use or sell the Bosch sensor is not a good enough answer.

 

[aDFIguy]

This picture won't be up very long, I'd suggest saving a copy while you can get it.

 

[turbobuick]

I thought it was pretty well understood that higher exh pressures and temp will affect WB02 readings and can cause a false rich condition. Isn't this the reason we put the sensor in the downpipe? I'm certainly no expert but how is this any different than the NTK sensor, my understanding is that both of them can be affected.

The latest version of the Gen 7 can use any WB02 sensor NTK or bosch LSU as long as it is a 10 to 20 linear sensor. So I'm open to either one. I currently have a innovate with the LSU but could easily switch to the Tech edge with an NTK sensor. There is a lot of info on both of these sensors on his website.

http://wbo2.com/lsu/default.htm

Personally I would rather use the LSU because of price and availablity. I also like the innovate better than the Tech edge since it is easier to use and has better support. I've owned both.
Chris Lyons
87 GN
9.01@153

 

[ijames]

Chris, the Innovate can use either the ntk or the lsu sensors, you just have to move a jumper inside.

 

[turbobuick]

Cool didn't realize that.
Chris Lyons
87 GN
9.01@153

 

[JrTuner]

aDFIguy, that link didn't even work for 12 hours (some of us have to work for a living) and you still didn't answer my question.

 

[Taffy]

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=691

Check out that link to the Innovate Motorsports (LM-1) Forums. Klaus, the owner, pretty much sums up test that have been done comparing the high dollar NTK units to the LM-1.

If you read almost to the bottom of the thread, he pretty much says the same thing that I did, but his testing was more controlled.