Calling the engine bay car show scoring experts

[Toby_Goodmk]

Have attended 4 shows this past month. Scored well, but have some questions about a conversation I had with a judge at the last event. The judge was quite knowledgeable...but very tough and wanted to get some of your experiences with your scoring. I know its all how the judge sees it, but some of the questions about his comments are grey

1. Battery, Is it a must to have an ACDelco battery? I like the Red Top Optima for not only long reserve but matches the red theme of the bay
2. Dayco belts got to be replaced with ACDelco type
3. Relays for the fans cannot be seen
4. Hoodliner...well...thats a given. Being a hot air, I am screwed with this one. He said make a decal and stick it on there or something.

However...never made mention of stainless top plate. Air filter kit, translator, red lines, red MSD wire kit, silicone hoses, etc...so who knows. WHat about the guys that chrome every thing out??

So look at my bay. I can see where some judges will give kudos for the originality or the "style" maybe say sport oriented look of the bay. And some may take away. I guess it makes a difference on the show. Where I have noticed the larger more organized and advertised it is, the more professional strict judging there is.

 

[aminga]

Are you entering stock or modified classes?

In a stock class the aftermarket stuff will hurt you. In a modified it's ignored.

And the hoodliner will hurt regardless.

 

[coach]

A knowledgeable judge....??? Unless its an ISCA event...he's just one of us.
The pics show a "Personalized engine bay" in my point of view. That means it looks the way "you" want it to look. To build a specific "class" of car is impossible unless your going Concours OEM. Then, nothing but factory everything is accepted. Some allow for "dealer installed" items, but that is more 50's and 60's type stuff.
The fan relays were visible on the intercooled cars, so I do not know about hot air.
Get a blank hoodliner until you find a better one, and if they are docking the make of your belts and leaving all your "red" items unaccounted for...you can throw out the "knowledgeable" judge comment right out the window.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

stock or modified class is not covered discussed or listed

 

[coach]

stock or modified class is not covered discussed or listed

I'd avoid going back. If there is no class designation...there is no criteria on what is or is not permissible. Now I really doubt the "knowledgeable" judge comment.
If your really worried about placing well in shows...go to shows that have a class specification...Concours ( no mods), Personalized ( up to 5 mods), or Modified ( speaks for itself). Some shows will allow "stock" cars to have as close to factory parts as could be found or subtle mods...gauges, tach, shifter...things like that.
Personalized and modified classes are easy to judge. A true Concours or Stock class requires judges who really know the cars. At the big show that the local car club runs in my area...the participants vote on every class EXCEPT the Muscle Car class. The club has 5 guys who vote on that class. Too many years the winner was also the winner of the personalized or modified class. They made the change and only vote for the Concours or Stock appearing cars. If there are not any...they move onto the eligible cars with the fewest mods and go from there. The results from the efforts have been well received, and more and more True Muscle Cars have showed up knowing they are judged apart from the others and they are not going to get beat out by a car that does not belong.
Shows are very very political....dont be fooled...which I'm sure you are not.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

good advice. When I refer to knowledgeable referring to general scoring tendencies with muscle car related cars from the 30s-70s. He seemed as he was a concouse type guy since he was letting me know that even slight "fuzzy" seat belts will get you docked. The classes (which most are in my area)
are pre 80s, and post 80 with some specialty awards. Sometimes they limit the years to 89, and some do not.

 

[coach]

I quit "Car Shows" years ago. I will go to National events and show, but for local shows...I donate the entry fee and just pull off to the side and "display". It was really unfair for me to show my 62 Pro Street car against the local guys. It was purpose built for the National circuit. The trophy wasnt worth the bullshit I had to listen too about how unfair it was.
I still dont show the GN at local shows either, because the locals remember the 62, and the GN is starting to resemble it in the detail dept.

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

I've done a bit of judging on our cars. Mainly when it comes to under the hood it's either stock, chromed to death, or modded. They all get approached almost the same. Look for clean wires( spark plug, harness, wire loom, tape) make sure spark plug wires are nicely loomed. Clean rad, windshield washer bottles. Clean brake reservoir. I like to see on modded cars something original. Clean hoses vacuum and brakes fire wall. IMO the worst things I've seen are when somebody just throws the chrome covers all over the engine bay and calls it a day. Your definitely gonna run into shows where it's the good ole boy network. Had a guy parked next to my WE4 a few months ago with his GN. Nice car but a lot of crust under the hood and busted fillers. Judges came up to him knew him by first name and hand shakes and all that. He got his first place trophy and took off right after the show not a peep from him after talkin to the guy for part of the afternoon.

 

[coach]

I've done a bit of judging on our cars. Mainly when it comes to under the hood it's either stock, chromed to death, or modded. They all get approached almost the same. Look for clean wires( spark plug, harness, wire loom, tape) make sure spark plug wires are nicely loomed. Clean rad, windshield washer bottles. Clean brake reservoir. I like to see on modded cars something original. Clean hoses vacuum and brakes fire wall. IMO the worst things I've seen are when somebody just throws the chrome covers all over the engine bay and calls it a day. Your definitely gonna run into shows where it's the good ole boy network. Had a guy parked next to my WE4 a few months ago with his GN. Nice car but a lot of crust under the hood and busted fillers. Judges came up to him knew him by first name and hand shakes and all that. He got his first place trophy and took off right after the show not a peep from him after talkin to the guy for part of the afternoon.

I agree with your post. Your a Veteran of our cars and I would welcome your knowledge and opinion as a judge.
I was at a local show a few weeks ago, during our county fair, and I did place, but I was the newest car to do so. The show is primarily older cars. There were new Challenger's Camaro's and a Roush Mustang...and they got notta'. The older participant judges were not impressed with "buying" a car and bolting on some goodies and entering it. Every other vehicle that placed was earlier then my 87'. There were no classes, just a Top 40 list. The show had about 150 cars...with cash prizes to the Best Gm, Ford, Mopar, and Non Big 3.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

What you described is 90% of the way the shows in this area are judged. However, I wish that when they open the show to "up to date" cars they would take more consideration around here bolt on new stuff and buy and show cars less credit. Many times the judges are instructed to judge cleanliness whether 1 year old, or 25 years old. I commented they need to have a class for cars up to date to X years considered modern day show class. Everytime a new car would place people (rightfully so) people commented bought, not built....Which it says reverse, built, not bought... in bold print in my display.

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

Up here in the Philly area there are way too many shows that do peer judging. Bring your friends and win a trophy?? I saw a guy the one year handing out picture cards with a half naked girl on it with his show number written on it. Of course he owned a brand new mustang! I'm glad when we do the Cecil Co car show next month Jim (Phillyturbosix) got it right and we judge the cars on multiple aspects. Check the MAGNA section for details. If you want to be part of a great event for Buicks!