Cheap junkyard alcohol pump?

[b4black]

Would 45 psi be enough delivery pressure for an injection system? If so, there are windshield washer pumps that can supply this. Plus they must be methanol compatible since washer fluid is ~1/3 methanol.

I have this set up on my car using a factory windsheild washer bottle (~1/2 gallon). The pump mounts directly into the bottle. Total cost was $8 for both. I spray before the turbo, so 45 psi is plenty. Spraying into 20 psi of boost would leave a ~25 psi differential. Maybe enough with a big M15 nozzle (or two)??? If so, this could be a very low cost system.

??

 

[Razor]

Depends on your performance level. for a fast car you need a real pump. maybe for a motorcycle, jet ski, or small motor??

You need not only pressure but flow at that pressure. And remember at 20 PSI boost, the pump has to fight the pressure in the input. Kinda like trying to open the door to your house when 30 MPH wind is pushing on it.

Cant get reliably cheaper than the tested shureflow. I dont design pumps..I just follow in the footsteps of those before me and relish in theyre success. This is the reason we dont use aquamist pumps, cuase of volume issues.

I love junkyard stuff when I can get away with it.. but not when my $$$$ motor is on the other end of the life support line.

Try it..whats the worst that can happen? it doesnt work well.

 

[b4black]

I understand your door/wind analogy, that why I mentioned the pressure differential. The 45 psi delivery will be 25 going into 20 psi of boost. The lower pressure can be compensated for by a larger orifice.

The nozzle's orifice controls flow more so than the pump, provided the pump can keep up. The washer pump can. The drop in pressure is very small when using an M15 nozzle.

The washer pump sits outside the bottle (not immersed in any liquid). It's a simple electric pump. I'm sure it's VERY reliable (much different design than the Regal/GN uses). Unsure about a used pump? - get a new at the parts store. Probably ~$15.

What deadhead pressure does a Shureflow or SMC's pump operate at? What volume of alcohol does a "fast car" need?



Sure I'll try. I have been for about six monthes now. I actualy have two bottle and two pumps. I can uses two different sized nozzles with two different turn on points. (I could even run two different type of water/alcohol if I wanted.) All for about $35.

 

[Red Regal T]

JUST FOR LAUGHS, I took a washer bottle off an 87 LeSabre, utilized the washer pump & check valve located outside the bottom of the bottle, installed a button on my shifter and an M10 nozzle on my up pipe to make a manually activated, 2nd stage, alky injection. It works, sprays alky, but doesn't quench knock. At least I can tell everybody I have two stage system.

 

[Razor]

How bout 4 pumps, 4 nozzles, 4 hobbs switches, and 4 relays spraying at different levels..every stage just adds more alcohol..4 little pumps out to supply enough volume I would think. Hook up 4 lites so you can tell when each has fired..

I use 4-6 ounces per 11 second pass.. so thats one quart per minute through an M15 nozzle..approx..


Ohh almost forgot, for a hotair, add 4 selenoids

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by Razor
How bout 4 pumps, 4 nozzles, 4 hobbs switches, and 4 relays spraying at different levels..every stage just adds more alcohol..4 little pumps out to supply enough volume I would think. Hook up 4 lites so you can tell when each has fired..

DON'T FORGET THE MOST IMPORTANT THING........PROGRESSIVE PUMP SPEED DIAL.

 

[b4black]

Here's the pump number - GM 22127652, dated 1992. (does that help?) If it sprays alcohol, why wouldn't it quench knock??? Why do you guys assume these pumps are going to fail???

1 quart per minute =
15 gallons per hour.
With an M15, thats about 100 psi delivery pressure plus ~20 psi for the boost. Is the dead head pressure of a Shureflow pump really ~120 psi? (Seems high to me)

At 25 psi delivered, I get 400 mL/min
or 6.2 gallons per hour.
Two of these would be close (Assuming 15 gal/hr and the 120 psi is correct).


Sure, this isn't as good as some expensive kit, but it seems viable for a slower car or little less boost.

 

[b4black]

When I say $35, I mean TOTAL, not just the pump(s).

Why did I post this here? Because I recently found the pump I'm referring to. Until then, I was using a pump that only supplied 25 psi. I was quite surprised to find this pump supplies 45 psi. I thought this might be applicable to SFI applications and I still do.


It seems I ran into a group of stockholders in Shurflo, Inc.



(Can somebody please tell me what the Shurflo's pressure is? Please.)

 

[salvageV6]

Actually the Shurflow has toooooo much pressure.

Chugs and surges a lot through one nozzle.

Use a bunch of them and it goes away.

Unlimited psi. out of that thing.

How else ya gonna get the shower to work in a RV?

 

[Razor]

Well actually those pumps are small enough you can steal them when bruising through the junkyard. So that brings the price down to zero...or you can pay 5 bucks to the guy at the counter..plus if you get the complete windshield washer reservoir, take the lines and get one thats filled..that blue liquid has alky in it..a simple bolt you drill through and make a nozzle, and wire it off a switch you get from radio shack.. alcohol injection under 10 bucks..methanol compatible

I can show you how to save money

Hey leave our shureflow alone..they dont bring anything but smiles to us farmers

 

[6SENSE]

4 solenoids for a hotair, is that supposed to be funny?

Seriously though, b4black, the setup will work and believe it or not guys, will yield a benefit. Even for our FI cars. But.........it is not nearly as good a setup as what we are using these days. It wont provide as much a benefit, especially for faster cars.
Remember, this type of setup using a winshield washer pump is what TR guys who were daring enough to try alky injection years ago were using.
When I first got into alky injection I purchased the Bowling Green Customs kit (about '98 ?). It used a Hella winshield washer pump from a Mercedes. I still have the pump sitting around and it still works fine. However, as progress is a must, I had to yank it out as the alky setup had to be upgraded over the years. I just plain out found better ways to do it. Finally every piece of that kit was gone. Last piece left was the hobbs switch, and I just got rid of that last month. It was normal progression as the rest of my car was progressing. Heck, I even used another pump before switching to the Shurflo. A 90psi F150 pump. Fact is the setup I use now and most of these guys here with the shurflo use will never have to be upgraded. The shurflo can provide enough for a 10 second car. 120psi sound kind of high? Some guys have it cranked up to almost 300psi from what I hear
b4black, I believe the washer pump will work just fine for your vehicle, heck youve already seen the benefit. Use it and just go from there. Improve when you see it necessary. Here is a tip. This relies on how tight your alky resevoir seals, but if you can, pressurize it! Run a vac line to the top of the tank and let your boost help push the alky. Theres some more psi for ya...almost FREE!

 

[Gary Evans]

F-150 Fuel Pump

6Sense

I've done a bunch of net research on a small high-pressure pump to use for water injection with little success. The Shurflo is too large for my available space (turbo bike) and the Aquamist is way too expensive. I've seen the F-150 pump mentioned several times as a possibility but no specifics on part number. My search on F-150 pumps listed a bunch of confusing models. Couple of questions -

Do you have a specific model or part number and cost for the pump?

Do you know for sure that the pump is compatible with water/alcohol? I've seen comments that some Bosch pumps have S.S. internals but it wasn't clear if it were only EOM pumps.

How long did you used it, was it being deadheaded and why did you change to the Shurflo?

Thanks!

 

[6SENSE]

Re: F-150 Fuel Pump

Originally posted by Gary Evans
6Sense

I've done a bunch of net research on a small high-pressure pump to use for water injection with little success. The Shurflo is too large for my available space (turbo bike) and the Aquamist is way too expensive. I've seen the F-150 pump mentioned several times as a possibility but no specifics on part number. My search on F-150 pumps listed a bunch of confusing models. Couple of questions -

Do you have a specific model or part number and cost for the pump?

Do you know for sure that the pump is compatible with water/alcohol? I've seen comments that some Bosch pumps have S.S. internals but it wasn't clear if it were only EOM pumps.

How long did you used it, was it being deadheaded and why did you change to the Shurflo?

Thanks!

Inline electric fuel pump bought from Auto Zone. '89 F150 1/2 ton pickup, part #E2000. Cost: $79.99 w/ lifetime warranty. I used it for over a year, until recently when I got Razor's progressive controller and decided to upgrade/revamp the whole system. It worked well. I ran straight water for a short period, water/denatured mix, straight denatured for a short period of time, and then straight methanol. Must use lube, I know because I killed the first one pretty quick (love those A.Z. warranties). I then started using MMO in the mix, until going with the methanol where I used a top lube that I purchased from a local speed shop. Once using lube with this pump, I never had any issues. It was working just as well when I removed it from the car as it was when I installed it (although I did not have a pressure gauge for specifics; just track results).
I originally learned about this pump from Lee Thompson who used it for quite sometime. Again natural progression led to the Shurflo which has plastic internals perfect for methanol. F150 pump may be a good choice for you, if size is an issue, and depending on what mix (+lube), you should be okay.

 

[Gary Evans]

MMO

Thanks for the info but what is MMO?

 

[Razor]

Marvel Mystery Oil..

Actually there are other pumps..look for FFV(flex fuel vehicles) and you'll find some more alternatives. The 99 Ford Ranger, mid 90's chrysler concorde, etc.. Flex Fuel means methanol is OK..

 

[Gary Evans]

FFV fuel pumps

Razor

The list of FFV vehicles was easy to find but do you know which if any use in-line pumps?

 

[Razor]

I ASSUMME theyre intank..so make a SMC style tank with built in pump. I havent gotten too deep searching into that realm just yet.. I only mentioned it cuase you were cramp for space.

Let us know what ya find out..

thx

Julio

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by 6SENSE
Seriously though, b4black, the setup will work and believe it or not guys, will yield a benefit. Even for our FI cars.

6SENSE, thanks for your post.

I think I'm now where you were once at. I wasn't even sure if I wanted to try alcohol. This set up was a way for me to test alcohol injection without spending too much money (which is part of what DIY is about).

Sure I wouldn't recommend this for an 11 sec car. But it might be worth considering on a stocker, especically those the are intercooler deficient.


BTW, I found my answer to the Shurflo pressure question. They are adjustable. Cool.