Court TV Drag Racing Trial

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by Pat Adkins
How would the trial have went if it had been O.J. racing A.C.

Some high $ attorney would have accused the cops of planting OJ in the seat of a hot-rod and pushing him 90mph into the path of another vehicle.

 

[whitehot84]

The camera crew would have been just as at fault.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by xlr8ngn

Maybe the other guy did not know he had his headlights off. I know they were both racing, but neither party was forced to race. Maybe one of the guys could comfortably handle an indy car at 190 mph while the other could not properly handle his hickey, should he be responsible for his lack of ability. What if the guy that hit them did it on purpose, should the other guy be responsible for that. What if the guy stalled his car on launch and the other guy took off anyway and the same thing still happened. I just do not think both should be charged the same in this case. Sorry.

Youre right and wrong... You have a lot of What Ifs..... which is what the trial starts at... its the Prosecutions job to eliminate through a preponderance of evidence all of those what if's (some are completely ridiculous, whether or not he could handle a car at that speed is not a license to drive like a maniac... Mario Andretti is suceptable to the same laws we all are) ... while its the defenses job to make those what ifs more prevalent. Its the jurys job to determine after taking both sides in whether its beyond a reasonable doubt that all those What Ifs are definitely Nots...

You can what if the case to death... the facts are he didnt stall off the line.., they were racing eachother... one was dumb enough to have his lights off... both should have used better judgement than to race on the street... And you completely fail to realize they were both participating in a VERY illegal act, TOGETHER... they werent two individuals speeding randomly in the same plae they were there because the other person was there... all your What ifs fail to realize that.. If the other guy wasnt there they WOULDNT have been drag racing... or maybe they would... maybe it would be some other dumbass who would also leave his lights off... who knows?? the fact is They were racing... 1 person hit someone and those people are dead... Thats all you can go on, because theoretical sitiuations arent what actually happened.

 

[TurboJunky]

I must correct the above post. It's the prosecutor's job to prove the case "beyond a reasonable doubt". "Preponderance of evidence" has no part in a criminal proceeding, but is instead the level of proof in a civil matter.

 

[xlr8ngn]

the fact is They were racing... 1 person hit someone and those people are dead...

To me you just said it all. 1 person hit someone. In my opinion, one person should be charged for hitting someone. It truly is a sad situation and I feel for the family of the victims, but they have their man. They have the person that hit someone and he will spend many years in jail for what he did.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I just hope I have someone like me in the jury box if I ever get in trouble.

 

[Rogue Leader]

i may have said it that way but I mean it to be considered as 1 single event (the stage... the race... the crash).

Yep we agree to disagree LOL

 

[caseyviator]

??????????

Originally posted by Rogue Leader
Sorry but... you did the crime you do the time... even the guy who didnt wreck (but whipped a U turn and took off instead of seeing if anyones ok) is JUST as guilty... just because he was lucky enough to get away doenst take him out of the equation.. murder sounds good to me.

its ABSOLUTELY stupid to race on the street.. I learned my lesson more than once... thank God my actions didnt end in this. The real world has unknown factors like unsuspecting people in Geo Storms pulling into traffic because they dont expect two dumbasses to be barreling down the road at 90 mph.. Maybe these two retards will serve as a lesson to everyone else keep this crap at the strip.

so since you have dragged raced b4 if you would have wrecked and killed someone you should be charged with murder............even if YOU did not do the crashing but the guy you were racin did????........is this what you are sayin??????even if this happen to YOU??

 

[GNSCOTT]

The difference between this and drunk driving is when a drunk deceides to drive his car home, he is under the influence of alcahol which impairs his judgement. He may not have intended to drive home drunk. These guys both intended to race, if one or both of them were drunk at the time, they would get off with less serious charges because of the mitigating factor of alchohol.

BTW, its not speeding that caused the accident, its the race that caused the speeding that caused the accident.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Re: ??????????

Originally posted by caseyviator
so since you have dragged raced b4 if you would have wrecked and killed someone you should be charged with murder............even if YOU did not do the crashing but the guy you were racin did????........is this what you are sayin??????even if this happen to YOU??

Of course since Im not in the situation (nor will I ever be now since I do not ever drag on the street for the past few years) I can say all I want that yeah i deserve murder, its a lot easier to say when you know you wont be in the situatiuon! of course I wouldnt want to be charged with murder... Nobody WANTS to be charged with murder... and not many people guilty of a crime believes they deserve what they get. As I said.. you do the crime you do the time and any time ive done something bad i know in the back of my mind if im screwed im screwed and all I can do is get a good lawyer and pray... I gues you can take my response as I have faith in the legal system and God to do the right thing in whatever situation.

So yeah I believe I do deserve murder for that... Lucky for me its never gonna happen... You cant ask a question like that because you'll never get a real answer... so why bother????

 

[Captain Mark]

I've heard this morning that the racism card may be played here. The defendants are black. They may counter that they have been overcharged in the crime because they are black......stay tuned.

 

[cool 84]

Charging the guy who did not wreck with murder is pretty harsh. But he was racing and it sounds like only luck prevented him from doing the crashing.

Something woke me up a long time ago to street racing and I mean on the street, not some rural location where there's no side streets and the street is completely blocked off to traffic. My car was almost stock (remember it's a hotair) and I ran into a new Mustang, it was around 1996. We went from a redlight. I had about 3 cars on him by 75mph in a 55 zone. I let off and braked down to the speed limit and also so he could see my brake lights. There were cars up ahead going the speed limit and I stopped way short of them, even if I just lifted off the gas and didn't touch the brakes I wouldn't have hit them. This dumbass in the Mustang stays in it (this is before the rice invasion and I assume this guy probably owns a riced out Civic now) flies by me and keeps in it. He swerved through a thick crowd of cars doing at least 30mph over the limit, fishtailed, and nearly lost it. I saw a ton of brakelights and some smoke up ahead. I stayed back there long enough to make sure there wasn't a wreck then I flipped a U and went home. If this idiot would've hit someone I don't think I deserve to get charged for the same crime as him.

Then again in the other incident, if it was my girlfriend that got killed because two dumbasses decided to race on a regular street going way over the speed limit, one with no lights, the police better find both of them before I do. I would have no problem whatsoever putting a bullet in both of them. Actually, after thinking about it, maybe they both deserve it.

 

[TurboJunky]

Everyone's made some good arguments here. Simply put there isn't one nice neat answer. The whole thing is tragic. I believe we've all done some pretty stupid things in our lifetime and if given the opportunity, who here can honestly say they wouldn't turn the clock back themselves for a foolish act. I sympathize with all involved...it's truely sad.

What's interesting is the contrasting opinions this board has compared to other boards I posted this topic. Honestly, I feel this community has shown a more spirited and compassionate set of views.

Court TV has some video clips of testimony and police video:
http://www.courttv.com/video/

 

[ACME RACING]

Drag

Here's the update on what's going on..

http://www.courttv.com/trials/dragrace/closings_ctv.html


Reading this looks like the defense lawyers said it was ok to race since their cars were in good shape


Now i can race since i got new tires...

alan

 

[machinegun]

I am in no way condonning the actions of these individuals. I personally do not beleive in the sentence but be that as it may. What I am really pissed about is the fact that we take this area and have a total of 12 deaths by racing. I understand this is bad. I really feel for the individuals involved. My only complaint is last year in Ohio on July 4th weekend we had 8 highway deaths in one day. All of them were alchohol related. How come we can fill sports stadiums of dead accident victims that were directly related to drugs and or alchohol and we do not make a big deal of it? We let the drivers go and give them special driving privileages? Sorry to rant but this is what makes me mad. I am by no means saying what they did was correct. I personally beleive they know what they did was wrong and have to face the jury. I am only saying there is alot of press on this but the others seem to go unoticed. Sorry for the rant.

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by machinegun
I am only saying there is alot of press on this but the others seem to go unoticed. Sorry for the rant.

That's because all that stuff is so boring. EVVVVVVVVVERYBODY knows you shouldn't drink and drive. EVVVVVVVVVERYBODY knows drugs are bad. No one wants to report on DWI or DUI deaths unless it resulted in some horrific number of deaths and mass destruction. It's just not interesting - the press doesn't care.

But take a couple 'o souped up cars and throngs of people and spin it as this big "underground" thing and you have a story - especially when there's a wreck. The street racing scene and associated sub-culture is a mystery to people - they find it intriguing. When a sad turn of events causes these people to be dragged out from the shadows into the spotlight it makes for good TV.

It's sad, not fair, etc. but it's the way it is.

Jim

 

[ACME RACING]

prosecution

Originally posted by machinegun
I am in no way condonning the actions of these individuals. I personally do not beleive in the sentence but be that as it may. What I am really pissed about is the fact that we take this area and have a total of 12 deaths by racing. I understand this is bad. I really feel for the individuals involved. My only complaint is last year in Ohio on July 4th weekend we had 8 highway deaths in one day. All of them were alchohol related. How come we can fill sports stadiums of dead accident victims that were directly related to drugs and or alchohol and we do not make a big deal of it? We let the drivers go and give them special driving privileages? Sorry to rant but this is what makes me mad. I am by no means saying what they did was correct. I personally beleive they know what they did was wrong and have to face the jury. I am only saying there is alot of press on this but the others seem to go unoticed. Sorry for the rant.

.....They said the 2nd degree murder law means (in layman terms),......" if you know you are doing something that is illegal and it could kill someone , then you are commiting 2nd degree murder.." Some states don't have it written this way..
I didn't know how murder could be used either, but now i see what their law means..
When the defendents agreed to race , that was opening the door for 2nd degree murder. If one of them said "no , it's too dangerous" , then the kids would be alive.... It takes 2 too tango ...
This is how the prosecution explained it to the jury ...

Interesting ...

alan

 

[Rogue Leader]

Re: prosecution

Originally posted by ACME RACING
.....They said the 2nd degree murder law means " if you know you are doing something that is illegal and it could kill someone , then you are commiting 2nd degree murder.." Some states don't have it wrtten this way..
I didn't know how murder could be used either, but now i see what their law means..
When the defendents agreed to race , that was opening the door for 2nd degree murder. If one of them said "no , it's too dangerous" , then the kids would be alive.... It takes 2 too tango ...
This is how the prosecution explained it to the jury ...

Interesting ...

alan

That sums up exactly what I meant in my earlier posts!

 

[ACME RACING]

Monday

They will probably have a verdict Monday sometime .......

 

[BoostKillsStres]

Guilty of lesser charges
A jury has spared two drag racers the worst by acquitting them of second-degree murder but convicting them of manslaughter and reckless driving for a fatal street racing accident.

 

[Captain Mark]

That sounds reasonable. Should've been charged with that to begin with.