craig i need info
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Craig Smith
That was easy!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 1,147
Not unless you are familiar with using an oscilloscope and know what to look for with a load on the injector output. I can tell you that the number of those drivers we have out there is WAY into 5 digits and with the exception of one guy who managed to apply 30+ volts to the ECU, there is yet to be a single injector driver failure ever. I feel confident in saying that your injector drivers are fine. 
i can use an ocilloscope and would like this info what load ect would i need to put on the injecto line what test points would iuse ect if i cant find another problem i will check others first if not ill get info from you
thanks
shawn
thanks
shawn
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
- Messages
- 10,866
Craig,
My unit had a bad injector driver. It kept on blowing out the same
hole # 4. I sent it back and Lance refurbed it. He stated that nothing was wrong, but magically it never blew the gasket again and you could smell fuel in the cylinder. We tested the wiring all the way from the injector through the harness and there were no problems. I guess I just got a bum unit.
This was with c116 and tune up from Harry Hruska.
My unit had a bad injector driver. It kept on blowing out the same
hole # 4. I sent it back and Lance refurbed it. He stated that nothing was wrong, but magically it never blew the gasket again and you could smell fuel in the cylinder. We tested the wiring all the way from the injector through the harness and there were no problems. I guess I just got a bum unit.
This was with c116 and tune up from Harry Hruska.
huh # 4 ......................
ths is the one i blew twice in one day so i am looking for the prblem and by the head gasket blowing out the way it did it went lean so i am suspect of the injector ,harness or injector itself .(the driver could also be bad) so i will try agian and test all i can
shawn
ths is the one i blew twice in one day so i am looking for the prblem and by the head gasket blowing out the way it did it went lean so i am suspect of the injector ,harness or injector itself .(the driver could also be bad) so i will try agian and test all i can
shawn
If I said nothing was wrong than that's what I found. I don't remember you or your ECU but Craig is right. I can't recall a single instance of a blown injector driver other than what Craig mentioned. A faulty driver would also likely cause some obvious symptoms... Like an overheated injector, cylinders filling up with fuel/hydraulic lock of the engine, etc. The flip side might be a dead cylinder. I cannot think of any reasonable failure mode of an injector driver where it would just make a cylinder run rich under certain conditions.
I resent your implication that I lied to you. I would have no reason to do this as the only logical explanation for a faulty driver would likely be some type of external short which is beyond our control.
Lance
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
- Messages
- 10,866
Lance,
I am sorry that you took that personally.
I have been very impressed with the performance of
my unit after it went back to you. I think you upgraded the
software for me also.
Here is the problem.
1. #4 was not getting any fuel
2. The car was running really ruff, even with a tune up from harry.
3. I swapped injectors and it did not make a difference.
4. I swapped injector harnesses and it did not make a difference.
6. Chris Chow ( A validations engineer by trade) and I tested the wiring from the injector through the adapter harness. It all checked out
6. I sent the unit back to you, about 2 or 3 years ago and my tune up from harry worked like a charm, there was fuel in #4 and
no more blown head gaskets.
That is why I said it was magic. You said you did nothing to it, but all the problems went away with out any other change other than the software revision and the new sticker.
I am not saying your stuff is junk and or you are a crook, I am just telling Shawn that there is a chance that the driver could be
bad. That might not even be you fault be it is stil a chance.
I would and have recommended your units to several racers on the west coast. I have one of your really early units, I think I purchased it in 97 or 98.
I had a very good experence with your product when I found out
that my car had a bad weather seal and my unit got wet in the car. I was really upset. I uplugged it and cleaned it up. Thank god there was no power going to it. It worked like a charm =)
Call me if you have any more hard fealings.
I am sorry that you took that personally.
I have been very impressed with the performance of
my unit after it went back to you. I think you upgraded the
software for me also.
Here is the problem.
1. #4 was not getting any fuel
2. The car was running really ruff, even with a tune up from harry.
3. I swapped injectors and it did not make a difference.
4. I swapped injector harnesses and it did not make a difference.
6. Chris Chow ( A validations engineer by trade) and I tested the wiring from the injector through the adapter harness. It all checked out
6. I sent the unit back to you, about 2 or 3 years ago and my tune up from harry worked like a charm, there was fuel in #4 and
no more blown head gaskets.
That is why I said it was magic. You said you did nothing to it, but all the problems went away with out any other change other than the software revision and the new sticker.
I am not saying your stuff is junk and or you are a crook, I am just telling Shawn that there is a chance that the driver could be
bad. That might not even be you fault be it is stil a chance.
I would and have recommended your units to several racers on the west coast. I have one of your really early units, I think I purchased it in 97 or 98.
I had a very good experence with your product when I found out
that my car had a bad weather seal and my unit got wet in the car. I was really upset. I uplugged it and cleaned it up. Thank god there was no power going to it. It worked like a charm =)
Call me if you have any more hard fealings.
Apology accepted. Since my name was mentioned and you claimed you had a bad injector driver despite my findings, I felt I had to set the record straight. If that was not your intention, I'm sorry for jumping the gun.
I am a little confused as to how a cylinder "that's not getting any fuel" can blow head gaskets.
As I said before, the most likely failure mode of an injector driver would be either shorted (on continuously) or open (off continuously). Either one would still be rarer than hen's teeth in my experience. Even more incredible would be a failure mode that would cause a partially rich or lean condition. Since injectors are either full on or full off in operation, there really can't be an electrically static condition that would change the flow. It's only the duty cycle of the injector (on time vs. off time) that determines flow. It is a timing thing, not really a voltage or current thing. I would never discourage someone to test for a faulty driver but it would require some specialized test equipment to look for any other failure mode of a driver. I think there are more likely other causes for a single cylinder fueling problem that should be looked for.
Regardless, for those that want to test a fuel injector driver, the simplest method is a "noid" light. Anything more elaborate would require an oscilloscope and a 2 ohm, 100W dummy load or test injector. I prefer the dummy load for this kind of testing because it is not inductive and makes for clearer waveforms on the o'scope. At 2 ohms and 13 volts, the current will try and go to 6.5 amps but the driver will foldback the current at 4 amps and drop the current to 1 amp for the remainder of the open time. This activity is hard to see on a noid light because without the injector or load present to get the current to 4 amps, the driver will just saturate. This is usually the best test for the field because it does show the driver is trying to switch. It does not test or stress the driver to make sure it's functioning properly however. That's why the dummy load or test injector. A noid light paralleled across the load doesn't work that well because the voltage drop on the injector for the 1 amp hold is only 2 volts and hard to see on the light. One other simple test would be to use the diode test funtion of a multimeter to check for a short in the driver output circuit of the unpowered ECU.
Lance
I am a little confused as to how a cylinder "that's not getting any fuel" can blow head gaskets.
As I said before, the most likely failure mode of an injector driver would be either shorted (on continuously) or open (off continuously). Either one would still be rarer than hen's teeth in my experience. Even more incredible would be a failure mode that would cause a partially rich or lean condition. Since injectors are either full on or full off in operation, there really can't be an electrically static condition that would change the flow. It's only the duty cycle of the injector (on time vs. off time) that determines flow. It is a timing thing, not really a voltage or current thing. I would never discourage someone to test for a faulty driver but it would require some specialized test equipment to look for any other failure mode of a driver. I think there are more likely other causes for a single cylinder fueling problem that should be looked for.
Regardless, for those that want to test a fuel injector driver, the simplest method is a "noid" light. Anything more elaborate would require an oscilloscope and a 2 ohm, 100W dummy load or test injector. I prefer the dummy load for this kind of testing because it is not inductive and makes for clearer waveforms on the o'scope. At 2 ohms and 13 volts, the current will try and go to 6.5 amps but the driver will foldback the current at 4 amps and drop the current to 1 amp for the remainder of the open time. This activity is hard to see on a noid light because without the injector or load present to get the current to 4 amps, the driver will just saturate. This is usually the best test for the field because it does show the driver is trying to switch. It does not test or stress the driver to make sure it's functioning properly however. That's why the dummy load or test injector. A noid light paralleled across the load doesn't work that well because the voltage drop on the injector for the 1 amp hold is only 2 volts and hard to see on the light. One other simple test would be to use the diode test funtion of a multimeter to check for a short in the driver output circuit of the unpowered ECU.
Lance
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