You can type here any text you want

difference/benefit of low/high impedence injectors

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

turbo39151

anycoloraslongasitsblack
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Messages
4,460
I'm looking to upgrade injectors and the more searching I do the more confused I get. I was looking at 009's or 50 lb MSD's but I was wondering what all the hoopla was over low/high impedance. It is my understanding that the ECU needs to be moddified for a low Z injector. (moddified as in reflashed or chipped??) What's the benefit?

Can anybody clarify?
 
The injector drivers in the ECM that provide power to turn injectors on and off durung the injector cycle have to be changed. The power requirement of the low impedance (55, 72, 83,etc..) injectors are greater than that of a high impedance injector (stock, 36, 009, msd50, 60, etc...). You can use a stock ECM however it may not last long. It will definately run hot compared to regular injectors. A friend of mine ran 55's for 2 years on a stock computer with no problems.

Hey tech gurus, Did I explain that correctly or am I way off base??
 
As copied from an add for an add on controller for the newer Series II L67 3800 ECM.

Easy Performance said:
Symbol Z A measure of the total opposition to current flow in an alternating current circuit, made up of two components, ohmic resistance and reactance, and usually represented in complex notation as Z = R + iX, where R is the ohmic resistance and X is the reactance.

Injectors are DC. However, since they are pulsed on and off, inductive reactance plays an important role.

Low Impedance injectors are generally 3-5 ohms. Roughly 1/4 of the impedance. This means with B+ applied across the injector you will have 4x the current and therefore 4x the coil "power". This means that the injector will have more "strength" to pull the pintle open.

High Impedance injectors are cheaper to make and much cheaper to control. They operate in saturated mode. This means full B+ is applied across the injector and the higher impedance of the injector is what limits the current. Most PCMs use inexpensive N-channel enhancement mosfets that just turn on and off gating current to the injectors.

High Impedance injectors have been proven to be reliable up to 42.5lbs. Meaning there is enough coil strength to control the pintle properly. Beyond 42.5lbs in High Impedance there just isn't enough coil strength to control the larger pintle properly. Spring pressure must be reduced in order to even move the pintle. This results in losing linear response, slow reaction time, and dribbling (leaking). This is why many people using 50lb High Impedance injectors have found that their gas mileage gets even worse. Very few manufacturers even make a 50lb High Impedance injector because of these issues. At 57lb High Z, these problems are further exacerbated. Its a poor solution, but for many, including myself it was the only option we had at the time.

These issues do not exist in Low impedance injectors at the larger sizes. There is plenty of coil strength to control the bigger injectors. They are available in sizes exceeding 155lb/hr. They also have a faster response (typically 1ms) than a High-Z of the same value. This means you will crouch your fuel window even less. The downside is that we cannot control Low-Z injectors from the PCM directly. The higher current left unchecked would burn up the mosfets in the PCM and shorten the injector life.

Low impedance injectors normally work in what is called a Peak and Hold mode of operation. This means that full B+ is applied until the injector opens. When the driver CKT sees that the injector has opened it reduces applied voltage to 1/4. This is because not much current is needed to hold the injector open after its been moved. At the end of the pulse, the driver shuts off all the way and the injector closes.

Many import folks install large resistors in series with low impedance injectors and run them in saturated mode with their high impedance ECUs. This is silly because you are externally reducing the injector current all the time in order to save the drivers in the ECU. You would lose many of the benefits you were trying to get in the first place.

Best explanation I've seen, sure Bruce or the guys from Caspers or Racetronix can correct and fill in the details,
 
turbo39151 said:
I'm looking to upgrade injectors and the more searching I do the more confused I get. I was looking at 009's or 50 lb MSD's but I was wondering what all the hoopla was over low/high impedance. It is my understanding that the ECU needs to be moddified for a low Z injector. (moddified as in reflashed or chipped??) What's the benefit?

Can anybody clarify?

The low impedance injectors, are used in what's called, Peak and Hold mode. That means the injector is allowed to draw as much current as it can, to first open, and then cuts back the current to when it's open (the short version). So while it might take 4 amps to first move, it might only get 1 amp to keep it open. The advantage is that in the bigger injectors the actually metering devise that moves, can be made to move faster with that arrangement. It also keeps the heat build up down in the injector windings.

The problem with big injectors, is that at the short operating pulse widths at idle they're get somewhat erratic, in how they meter the fuel. So they try to make as responsive as possible to get a decent idle.

The new 60 PPH Motronic injectors work just fine on even stock motors, and are the saturated design.

In highway mode, I've run a stock ecm for 300 miles without hurting it, driving a set of Low Z injectors. I wouldn't recomend that, but I was just curious if a stock ecm could be used to get home, if a modified one failed.
 
SO, if I read correctly the ideal set up in a low Z 50lb + injector with a modded ecu? How does one mod an ECU to keep it from burning up?

Maybe I'm getting too technical. Maybe I should stick with 009's and hope for the best. What do you guys think?
 
turbo39151 said:
SO, if I read correctly the ideal set up in a low Z 50lb + injector with a modded ecu? How does one mod an ECU to keep it from burning up?

Maybe I'm getting too technical. Maybe I should stick with 009's and hope for the best. What do you guys think?

Unless your extremely talented, you just send it out to firms like http://www.fullthrottletech.com/

As nice as the 60s work, I'd suggest those. If you do a search for 009s, your see the reasons for my suggestion.

Your too technical, when no one answers your questions....
 
Back
Top