I took my car to a local dyno today to get tuned. This guy has had a lot of experience with turbo Buicks. He has one that runs in the tens, a tube frame GN that runs in the 5's (1/8), and claims to have tuned the third fastest GN in the country. My car has a stock motor, TE45a, motortron 60's, THDP + stainless exhaust, test pipe, TCI Streetfighter transmission, Precision 3400 stall, rjc powerplate, hotwired walbro 340, razor's alky kit, etc. I normally tune my car myself with the seat of the pants dyno, or at the track, but I have a hard time finding a track that is open on a regular basis. Also, no matter what I do, I can't get the o2 numbers even close to what they should be. After a couple of pulls on the dyno, bumping the fuel pressure all the way up to 50psi, changing the translater to 14% rich at wot, the o2s were only 680-690s. Max power was 332 max torque was 350. Boost was at 23 psi, and I did not have any knock. He seemed happy with the numbers, but I was expecting more. Am I missing something? Is he an idiot? Do I have fuel system issues? Do I have unrealistic expectations from my car? What do I do next for more power?
disappointment on the dyno
- Thread starter seeyabye
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ttypewe4jim
pa turbo buick racing
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seeyabye said:
What was the timming? What kind of dyno was it as different ones will give out different numbers? Im not sure how many miles are on your motor hold old are the vavle springs? There is alot of things that could have affected it
With 60lbs injectors, 50psi of fuel (which you should not have to do), +14% on the translator, and alky.........you should be dumping in a lot more fuel then the 332/350 number would lead me to believe. I think something is very wrong there.
ttypewe4jim
pa turbo buick racing
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JeffG said:
I think he was just dumping to much alky/fuel in even know the 02's where leanish
Sorry to have to say it but, "seat of the pants" tuning will usually yield results like that.
No real scan tool data, like Direct Scan, etc.?
That setup should have yielded something closer to 480+ HP in a good state of tune, set to kill.
No real scan tool data, like Direct Scan, etc.?
That setup should have yielded something closer to 480+ HP in a good state of tune, set to kill.
The 115mph was with the old combo. I am having trouble sorting out the new combo, so I took it to this guy. I am scared to take it to the track because according to the 02s, I should be blowing the headgaskets through the fenders. The dyno I took it to had a wide band o2, and his readings were along the same lines as my 02s. I guess that is why he was trying to throw more fuel at it. On the first pull with the 02s in the low 600s, the car only made 321/331. After dumping in all the extra fuel, it only made 332/351. I am looking at my dyno sheet now, it has the af ratio along the bottom, it looks like the initial pull was 14to1, and the subsequent pulls were just below 13to 1. I have no idea what this means. What can I do? Thanks for all the replies.
Is direct scan hard to use? I am an idiot when it comes to computers.That AF reading is on the lean side. With 23# of boost, I like to have a little more rich mixture of around 11.5 to 1. I discovered that your stock O2 readings will be very low/lean reading on a dyno, at least mine are. Mine are around 650-680mv on the dyno, but the AF reading will pin point it right at 11.5 to 1, then on the street leaving the dyno, a WOT blast will yeild O2s in the 780-790mv range which is about perfect. I guess its the load factor on the dyno makes it read differently..really don't know.
With that said, I'd go by the AF reading, is it getting more rich as you add more fuel? Are you sure your knock gauge is working? Test it by tapping on the front part of the block with a crow bar with the key on and make sure it registers something.
With alky and 60#, and fp up to 50psi, that should be more than enough unless something is really screwed in your chip programming.
Does this tuner burn chips or is he just playing around with fuel pressure and the Translator?? If he is not burning you new chips while tuning, then I'd try someone else. Who is he? If he's that well known then someone on here would know him, if he knows anything about tuning, he should at least be able to download the info on your chip and read it to make sure its contains the right parms for your setup.
With that said, I'd go by the AF reading, is it getting more rich as you add more fuel? Are you sure your knock gauge is working? Test it by tapping on the front part of the block with a crow bar with the key on and make sure it registers something.
With alky and 60#, and fp up to 50psi, that should be more than enough unless something is really screwed in your chip programming.
Does this tuner burn chips or is he just playing around with fuel pressure and the Translator?? If he is not burning you new chips while tuning, then I'd try someone else. Who is he? If he's that well known then someone on here would know him, if he knows anything about tuning, he should at least be able to download the info on your chip and read it to make sure its contains the right parms for your setup.
The place that I took the car to is unable to burn chips for the translator. There were several Buicks there including 2 that run in the 10s. All the cars there either had FAST or The Big Stuff. He was telling me that if I wanted to make more power, I would have to go with heads/cam or The Big Stuff computer system. After I left, I had to pull over and change the settings in the translator because the car was missing and blowing black smoke out the exhaust. Needless to say, I won't be taking the car back there. The problem is that there is nobody in this area that knows anything about these cars.
seeyabye said:
try Mark, he's down in your area.
Mark Riley
turbotuneusltd@triad.rr.com
What dyno doesn't have a WB?.
Using the stock O2 for tuning is a crappe shot at best.
You might try getting a G-Tech Pro SS, and do some 1/8 mile passes, to get your tune close.
From the sounds of things, someone's just missed the tune on your car, assuming the mechanicals are right. You might start with a spring cleaning, and make sure the motor and related systems are up to snuff.
I didn't want to mention any names, because I am not flaming at all. Mark told me before I put the car on the dyno that he could not burn anything for a translator. I just assumed that I had all the parts there to make power. I also assumed that he would be able to give me some ideas as to what I needed to do to get more out of it, or as to why the power isn't there. I tried both chips, and they both were about the same, which indicates to me that the problem is probably not with the chip.
The Translator will work with any chip so there is nothing special there. Unless you have an extender chip and just want it reprogrammed for fueling, those are a little more complex to deal with, but if they guy knows anything about chip burning for these cars, he could have made one from a stock chip for your combo. Theres' a ton of opinions on the 45A turbo needing heads/cam to maximize your power, but I've seen a local guy here run 7.2 in the 1/8 with one with stock untouched heads/cam. It should be fully capable of producing 400-425 rwhp SAE readings. I say try a different chip made for your combo/injectors/alky and turn the fp back down to 42-43#, maybe even turn off the alky till you get it running right at a safe boost level...say 15-17 lbs....maybe something wrong with the alky system.seeyabye said:
If these are correct, then thats lean. Was that the state of tune when it was missing and blowing black smoke? With the fp up to 50# and the T= putting 14% and with alky, there is no way you should be lean. May try a new coil and/or ignition module too.seeyabye said:
That is correct. With the FP at 50psi, and the translator putting in 14%, the car was missing and blowing black smoke with anything less than full throttle. With the fp set at a reasonable 43 psi and the translator putting in 14%, the o2s were at 620s. I was almost convinced that the fuel pump was getting weak, but on the way to work this morning I got on the car and the FP shot righ up to 73 psi. That was with the base FP at 50psi from yesterday. I guess the only other possibility is the injectors or the chips. 
seeyabye said:That is correct. With the FP at 50psi, and the translator putting in 14%, the car was missing and blowing black smoke with anything less than full throttle. With the fp set at a reasonable 43 psi and the translator putting in 14%, the o2s were at 620s. I was almost convinced that the fuel pump was getting weak, but on the way to work this morning I got on the car and the FP shot righ up to 73 psi. That was with the base FP at 50psi from yesterday. I guess the only other possibility is the injectors or the chips.
Personally I would suspect the O2 sensor. Get a good high quality unit and try it out, see if things get more reasonable. Lot's of people swear by the Denso's. BUT, after tuning three different cars over the last couple years, and curing all the illness's just by throwing out the Denso sensors and going back to AC/Delco O2's...
Pronto
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.
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Maybe you had a vacuum leak? Pinched an O ring? What was your old combo and what were the O2 on that? How many things did you change at once? You might want to turn down the boost until you get this lean condition sorted out.
I dont think I have a vac leak because before he started changing things, BLMs were 128-129. What makes me suspect the chip, injectors, or translator is that the old combo would run low 800s. I never had the car on the dyno, but it ran 115mph in the 1/4. If I can find them, I may try to swap the 009s and factory maf and see what happens.
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