Do Not Start

[Laredo GN]

HELP
I just took my 85 GN to the muffler shop to change my Flowmasters for a new pair of Magnaflows. As I drove it out it started but when I stopped about 4 blocks away I had a hard time to start it back again. It only drove about 1/2 mile and it stopped, I tried to start it back again (No chance) it cooled about 15 minutes and it started right up, and it only drove about another 1/2 mile and it stopped, and this time I could not star it back, I had to call a tow truck to take it home. I think that there is no fuel going through, I can hear the gas pump going at the gas tank but the car would not start. I was present as the Magnaflow were put on and there was no thinkering with anything else at all. Could be the gas pump, I checked the fuse box and could not find anything out of place. HELP HELP HELP

1985 GN Ported/Polished Heads, 2800 stall, 390 gears, 3 inch up/down pipe, 3 inch exhaust & tubbing, Blue top injectors, Adjustable Fuel Presuure Regulator, Adjuatable Actuator, Enhanced Turbo, Cold Air Induction with an 18 Inch K&N, Boost Gauge, Fuel Pressure Gauge, 93 Octane chip from Poston, High Performance Overhaul Kit from Poston, 4, 000 miles on new engine.

Toys: 2002 True Blue Lightning
1993 Z28 Camaro with several bolt ons
1970 Plymouth GTX 440 Six Pack
1969 Plymouth Roadrunner 510 CU 10.80's in the 1/4

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Hopefully the problem with the car will be less confusing than the poll. I think the muffler shop could have pinched/crushed a fuel line somewhere during the job.But,there are usually strange coincidences haunting these cars and it could be something totally unrelated to the exhaust job.I would pull the guts from the shrader on the fuel rail,hook up a hose pointed into a gas can and either have someone work the ignition or if you know how hook up the(grey?)wire to run the pump.If you need more details on the grey wire hookup to test the pump post again about that.See if you have flow witht the pump running if not you are on the trail.If you are getting fuel let us know.

 

[Laredo GN]

Don't Start

Thank You Turbo Buick
I do not know where the grey wire is, I can hear the gas pump working in the gas tank, but the car does not want to start, it just cranks & cranks but it does like if it wants to start and then it dies. I know that nothing happened at the muffler shop it just started acting up after that. I had a similar problem about 3 years ago, I had my GN taken from shop to shop because here in Laredo, Texas my GN is the only one and it seems that nobody knows anything about these "Beautiful Fast Black Cars". I think that at the end it was as I told them that it was probably the crank sensor (they had replaced it 3 times) until finally they got one that worked. The car has been fine for the past two years since it was overhauled, and NOW THIS. I have ordered (two months ago) a new Chip, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and a hot wire kit. I work a lot and sometimes I have no time to play around with my GN, but I have a nephew that works as a (ASE Certified) mechanic at a local Ford dealership and he and another friend who also works there are coming Monday or Tuesday to tow it to their home so that they can work on it. I will tell them anything that you can pass on to me to help them start up my car. I appreciate all the help and recommendations from all of you guys that have the inside scoop (knowledge) on these beautiful and fast cars. Don't have a Scanmaster SORRY

Toys: 2002 Ford Lightning
1993 Z28 Camaro
1960 Plymouth Roadruner 510 CU IN
1970 Plymouth GTX 440 Six Pack

 

[crazygn]

Check for the fuel at the rail, if you have it make sure you are getting spark i do it the old way with a screw driver and put it in the plug wire , then crank to see if you get spark. Then let use know and we can go from there.

Also i have heard that if you weld on a car you should un hook the batt or the ecm, do you know if they did this , might be the ecm or chip .Just a thought.

 

[Laredo GN]

Don't Start

CrazyGN
Thank You for your input
I was present when the mufflers were welded and at no time I disconnected the battery or the ECM. I was also told by Janice from Conley's performance to check the fuse box to see if the fuse was burned (No luck). When I had it towed home I remember that the gas pump was not working because I could not hear it, and now (Today) I attempted to start it again and I could hear the pump working but it would not start. You put the pedal to the metal 5 or 6 times and it looks like it wants to start but then like there is too much gas and it stalls out. But you' re right the first think that I,need to do is see if I have spark and then if I have gas. I do not know what else to think of I hope is not the Crank or the Cam sensor. THANK YOU again and I will let you know how we are doing with the car so that you can give me your expert input on the matter.

 

[crazygn]

yea bud check that and we will get you running again, also you might want to pull the cam sensor cap and check it, sounds like the same problem i had a little time ago. If it is the cap you can get them for about 50-60.00 or the hole sensor for about 120.00 but hope its not nothing crazy.

let use know

 

[FJM568]

Sounds to me like the crank sensor...When it ran, you said it would run a while and stall, then it would take a little time to start up again??? That sounds like a heat related problem with the sensor...I had the same problem with mine a few years back...

To check it, back-probe the center wire on the connector with a dig. volt-ohmeter...have it set on the 20V DC setting...With the ign on, engine off, turn the engine over with a big socket/ratchet and watch the DVOM...The voltage should be alternating from 0V to (going from memory here) like around 6-8V...If you aren't getting anything, then the sensor is bad...If you are getting a reading there, then do the same with the cam sensor...Same wire(middle one)...You will have to rotate the motor farther with the cam sensor because it only has one window, but if you make at least two revolutions, it will tell you all you need to know...Same results on this one as well...The voltage should be at about 6-8V for almost all of the revolution of the motor...It should drop to 0V briefly...If you turn the motor and you aren't getting anything or the voltage never drops to 0V, then pull the cam sensor cap off and turn the motor over to see if the metal cup on the cam sensor is turning...If it's turning, then try a new cam sensor cap...If it's not turning, then you've got other problems...

Let us know what you find out and we'll try to help you out further...

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Originally posted by crazygn
Also i have heard that if you weld on a car you should un hook the batt or the ecm, do you know if they did this , might be the ecm or chip .Just a thought.

crazygn I bet you are on the money right here,good thinkin man.Laredo,you need to get an ECM from someone,maybe someone from the board is local to you and could let you borrow one to verify.If that is not an option then I would swap to the 87 ECM,it is a better unit anyways.That would explain how it ran intermittently.

 

[Laredo GN]

THANK-YOU TurboBuick6
If I can not get a hold of one (ECM), where can I buy one, would it be ok if I get one from Auto Zone or where can I buy it from and how much do they cost. You're right it could be that the ECM got messed up with the welding, but I had some work done before on the exhaust (three inch tubing) about 5 months ago and nothing happened, with 2 1/2 behind the Magnaflows to the end.

These two guys that took the GN two days ago to have it fixed have not called me yet, I will keep you guys posted. I do appreciate very much the advise and pointers I can get from you guys that know how these beautiful cars work, I want to get the GN up and running properly.

THANKS

 

[Laredo GN]

OK FMJ568, CRAZYGN and TURBOBUICK6 I NEED YOUR HELP

I just went over to see the GN and the Fuel Pressure Regulator is on (Plenty of fuel). NO SPARK AT ALL, the car just CRANKS, CRANKS and CRANKS, but it will not start. Tomorrow they will get an Dig Volt Ohmeter and they will test the CRANK & CAM SENSORS, I hope this is all the problem, meantime I already had someone inquire in regard to the ECM, from what I understand there is someone in San Antonio, Texas that has some ECM's for sale. I hope these guys can fix the GN if not do you guys know somebody good in San Antonio, Texas because Conley's is in Houston and that is about 6 or 7 hours from here, while on the other hand San Antonio is about 2 hrs. THANKS AGAIN
PLEASE ALL YOU GUYS WITH KNOWLEDGE ON THIS SUBJTCT SEND ME YOUR .02 cents on this matter.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Check the crank sensor first then the ecm.The cam sensor controls the fuel injectors.

 

[Laredo GN]

TurboBuickSix
How do I check the ECM, I can hear the injectors working, where is the crank sensor. We were playing with the car yesterday and NO SUCH LUCK, NO SPARK WHATSOEVER, I will be going to work in a few minutes from now and will be back at 4PM central. THANK YOU Again

 

[sdela]

found the ecm

hey there laredo gn,

he emailed me back and does in fact have an 86 87 ecm with two chips...he said he'll take 45.00... he said that he knows its good because he used to check the car he sold me with it...call me and we'll figure out a way to get it here...maybe you know someone that can meet him in SA....

later man

 

[crazygn]

The crank sensor is behind the crank pulley, on the drivers side of it. It will have a grove in it that has to be right on the money , make sure its not lose and then prob it to make sure its ok.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

They only way I know of to test an ecm is to replace it with a known working one.When you pull the codes what happens?If you don't know how to pull the codes check the basic hotair info sticky out.

 

[dfisher]

Looks like I may be in your area next saturday there is a local I sold my ttype to and he was telling me your delima ,If sure we can figure out what happen keep me posted on progress I just picked up a complete moter so I shoud have all the parts to get Your car on the road agian.

 

[Laredo GN]

DFisher
Thank You for caring, I know the person who you sold your T-Type to, well I spoke to the guy who is fixing my GN and he told me that he just got it to start, but that it has a small miss with the check engine light on and that he is waiting to hoop up the computer to see what codes it had. I will keep you posted
THANKS

 

[dfisher]

We will also have the tlink then so even if you get it going we should still put it on and see how everthing working.. Good luck

 

[TType84]

could be unrelated...

swap ecms with someone..

bout year and a half ago was driving home.. smelled burning..

car stalls ?????

wait about 10 minutes..starts up again, drives for few more then bam stalls again.

repeat that 1 more time and then bam no start.

luckily this was ne of the days when i carried around a extra car in my trunk.. 4 ecms 2 mafs 3 coils etc etc and i swapped it and everything was gravy....

might not be the problem but if nothing else checks out.. give it a try.

 

[FJM568]

Check the crank sensor and the cam sensor as I described above...

The car WILL NOT start without either one of those sensors working...If it was a bad ecm, it should at least start and run like crap, if the sensors were working right...But if either the crank sensor and the cam sensor were bad, the car flat out won't start at all...

Don't quote me on this, but I *think* if the crank sensor is bad, you won't have spark, and if the cam sensor is bad, you won't have fuel...