Effect of inlet temp at air filter on power

[Razor]

You better believe after I spent a weekend fabbing all this home depot ducting getting air to my turbo it works

How many would fab something and then take it off.. too many show and no go Buicks out there.. too caught up in the bling bling..

As far as looks.. the cold air kits ROCK :wink:

 

[Fuelie600]

These should work . I had to drop the picture quality to get the file size down.

 

[Razor]

I must have thought about this too long. As much as I respect Razor's opinion, I think that for a general street car, a cold air package such as PSM's or Mark Hueffman's is best for all around playing. And as much as I respect Mark Hueffman's (BucikGN)'s products, the stealth look of the PSM unit has me hooked. I think that will be going on the car shortly. Almost looks stock, huh?

It is possible too my data is compromised by the injection stuff. Whereby I dont care what the temp is going in.. the alcohol will bring it rite down.

Most race cars will race without an air filter.. been to plenty of events whereby its just a "pipe" without anything on the end. Buicks/Fords/Imports.. the heavy hitters dont run filters.

I had a cold air on my car long time ago.. took me a while to fab, had to do some cutting.. the car did not pickup any MPH before or after. Seeing it didnt hurt performance, my ATS was down on my scanmaster.. I said i'll leave it.. Few months latter one day I go to the track.. car had dropped 4 MPH in the back end of the track.. run after run.. like it hit a wall.. after 5 runs.. pulled the air filter.. ran it.. MPH was back to normal.. Lesson learned, my air filter clogged up from sucking all the trash and debris on the road.

Filter was put back in its normal location.. never had an issue after that.

The 'ol timers will say.. short MAF pipe with open K&N.

 

[ChrisCairns]

Uh, weren't me . Maybe John Estill?

Sorry....you smart guys all look alike to me.

Then what I remember was what John posted...and it convinced me to place the filter in the engine compartment instead of in front of the radiator with all the pipe bends.

And John ... thanks for posting it again.

 

[Blazer406]

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I got a Razor's Alkycontrol kit. Been sitting on the shelf in the garage for about 3 months now. Got lazy and put a tankful of 100 octane unleaded V.P. at $ 5.79 a gal. Love the stuff. But the alky kit will go on someday. It's easy to just go fill up with 100 octane. I get 22 lbs. of boost with absolutely no knock retard indication. Gotta love the smell of that race fuel.

Yea..... but you are missing the massive cooling benifits of alky..... you get the octane from the $$$$$$ race gas..... but very little on the cooling end.... which.... cooler air is more dense... and can make more power..... alky rules.....

The fastest stock turbo/stock longblock car in the country (Ed Brewer)..... picked up ET and MPH with pump gas/alky ..... over the race gas......

I guess if money were no object.... you could run race gas.... and alky...... :biggrin:

 

[Gary Wells]

It will be going on one of these days, and I realize that I am missing out on the benefits of cooling the air charge down with the alky, but I wnat to do it myself and I want it to be socially acceptable.

 

[JDEstill]

Isnt more vacuum at the inlet indicative of a restriction? The closer to zero the better.

Yeah, that what I was trying to say, maybe I didn't communicate that very well. Cold is good, low restriction is good, but plumbing-wise it's hard to get the cold without the restriction. Pressure usually has a stronger effect than temperature, so moving the filter way far away just to get cold air could easily end up a loser. But measure it (if you can) and see. I only know one guy that actually measured the suction he pulled at the turbo inlet, and he got something like 4" Hg, which is a lot to me. But then he had a fast-fast car.

Besides, the temperature that really matters is what's going into the intake, and the intercooler will dampen the temperature rise some. 30 deg hotter into the IC doesn't mean it will be 30 deg hotter coming out, it will likely be less than that. And if you are chilling it with alky anyway... Plus restriction on the inlet makes the compressor work harder, which will heat up the air a bit more than otherwise, so cold + restriction could end up delivering the same temperature to the IC as hot + no restriction, depending on how much restriction you've got and what the relative temperatures are. I still say measure it and see what you get, you can tell from the temps and the vac you pull which setup is better.

And that's all I have to say about that.


John

 

[Razor]

I guess if money were no object.... you could run race gas.... and alky...... :biggrin:

If it werent for class rules, this would have eliminated all the IC bickering over the last few months.

Run it with race gas, set your FAST to +25% correction... you dont turn it on, dont fill it, whatever.. the WB picks the car going lean and adds the necessary fuel

Win Win scenario.. picks up 5% power.. and allows a much much smaller IC running ambient at whatever boost you throw at the motor.

Back under my rock

 

[Blazer406]

If it werent for class rules, this would have eliminated all the IC bickering over the last few months.

Run it with race gas, set your FAST to +25% correction... you dont turn it on, dont fill it, whatever.. the WB picks the car going lean and adds the necessary fuel

Win Win scenario.. picks up 5% power.. and allows a much much smaller IC running ambient at whatever boost you throw at the motor.

Back under my rock

On the "if money was no object" theme..... a friend went to the local speed shop the other day to buy like 10 gal of C16..... he decided to only get 5 gal....... $9.6x per gallon :biggrin: ....... I'll stick to my 2.83/gallon pump premium.... and my $2.99 per gallon methanol....... works great on my daily driver.....85 miles or so round trip every day.....25 psi boost all the time...... Thanks Razor!

Back under my rock

 

[Sleeper1987]

Thanks for the input guys lots of info even though some conflicting i belive i have everything sorted out as far as an added restriction i dont belive mine added any more restriction and i payed close attention to bends and any lips etc inside the pipes.


I have yet to do any cooler night testing

 

[441120]

These should work . I had to drop the picture quality to get the file size down.

Thanks! That's what I was thinking, box in the filter using the hood for the lid and plumb fresh air in the bottom. Now you have a straight shot from the filter to the turbo, and the filter is breathing cold outside air. NICE!
Ever check out Kenne Bell's air dam scoop set up, they have both sides with scoops built in, used for their ram air kits? They also have the whole air dam with center scoop for stock intercooler.

 

[441120]

Here is the scoop, sorry about the pic had the car out last night (bugs) now it's buried in the garage 'til tomorrow, 15 min to get it out

 

[Ormand]

While Razor is correct that there won't be much difference in temp by the time you get to 70 mph, most of us don't drive anything that will get from 0 to 70 in ZERO seconds! From a standstill, up until there is a significant airflow, there will be cooler air into the turbo if the intake is somewhere out of the engine bay. Some kits put it behind the air dam- but that's a low pressure area. You might lose out on the temp/pressure trade off, as John Estill points out. The scoop in the air dam is good, and I like the ones that have the filter just ahead of the radiator support, in front of the radiator. That's a good high pressure area. Note the two components to the pressure story. One is the pressure drop, from outside the air filter to the inlet of the turbo. But you also have to consider that the pressure on the outside of the air filter can vary by several inchs of Hg, depending on where the filter is located. And as far as running without a filter- I'll be glad to do it, when there is no dust or dirt that I EVER have to drive through. The tracks at Indy, and at Daytona, are pretty clean. The guys running the Baja, however, have air filters.

 

[Turbodan]

Ok here is a question about the system my car has on it. When i bought the car it was on there. The owner before me said he used it once. I have not and don't plan on it. I think it is usless. I have a device on my innercooler that blows cold nitros onto it. You can connect a bottle of nitros in the trunk and there is a button on my dash that when you push it blows the nitros on the innercooler. Does the computer use the air temp sensor to change the gas air ratio?

 

[salvageV6]

They work well on the street especially with a Kenne Bell air scoop in front of them under the bumper. (Mark H.'s setup)

0-60 is very important to me on the street.

I agree with Ormand, track is controlled conditions, street driving is another set of rules.

 

[Razor]

There is the same arguement with the 3.5 inch maf vs the stock maf.. Bigger is not better if not needed.

Datalog, test it.. put it on.. take it off.. see how the car responds.. thats the real test. These cars are best handled using the KISS principle.

Whats next.. start waxing the inside of pipes so the air runs smoother through them?

 

[441120]

Can't use Turtle wax :biggrin:

 

[Gary Wells]

These should work . I had to drop the picture quality to get the file size down.

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This is really a nice job, nice quality & craftsmanship. Any more pictures, & where did you hide the cannister, or did you. Also, those clear lenses on the bumper turn indicator lights look terrible, you should remove them and sell them to me.

 

[Fuelie600]

What pics are you looking for Gary? The evap. canister is relocated behind the front bumper. Just made a simple bracket to mount it. Brian

 

[Gary Wells]

What pics are you looking for Gary? The evap. canister is relocated behind the front bumper. Just made a simple bracket to mount it. Brian

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Any other pictures of the installation that you may have. Especially underneath. Very professionally looking set-up. And J/K regarding those clear turn indicator lenses. I have been looking for a set for a year or so now. Those really make the car stand out.