Finally have time to work on the car!

[beyerch]

Hey,

I've had this car for a long time now and have only drive it once.... anyway to make a long story short....

I bought '85GN 1 years ago now (at least it feels like). The 85 Engine/Trans was pulled from the car. The owner claimed it had rod knock. He transplanted a 350V8 in it. He did a poor job at that as well. It had a LOT of good parts on the engine; however, he obviously can't build an engine to save his life as it smokes to no end.

I decided that I'm going to put an '87 drivetrain in this car. I could rebuild the 85 and build it up, but I figure why. If I have to rebuild an engine, might as well do an 86-87.

Ok so here's my inventory list at this point.
-----------------------
1 - Chevy 350 V8 w/ ton of good parts (needs rebuild because it smokes)
1 - TH400 transmission ^^ for above
1 - 85 GN engine. Complete w/ accessories, computer, wiring harness. Haven't evaluated this engine personally yet but told it knocks.
1 - Transmission for 85 GN engine.
1 - 87 GN long block. This needs a rebuild, but nothing serious. Do not have headers, turbo, wiring harness, ECM, Ignition Coil, MAF, TB, and/or accessories.

I'm looking for opinions on how to go about this.

My game plan is as follows.

#1 - Pull V8 350. Since it is practically new, I just need a quick rebuild on it to solve the smoking problem. I'm guessing piston rings. Then SELL this engine for some cash to go into the GN fund. Sell Trans as well. Has a shift kit and is very nice.
#2 - ???? Sell 85 Engine/Transmission as is. Rebuild 85 engine, then sell it? Keep it for a backup? Use accessories off of it???
What do I do with this?
#3 - Take money ?? from #1 & #2 to finish 87 drivetrain and drop it in?

and of course.....

Now there are people with complete drivetrains fairly reasonable in the classified section. (they weren't there when I was looking, but now they are there.)

So should I just buy a COMPLETE 87 engine / trans and not worry about building mine? (and sell it off?)


What do you guys think I should do?

I've finally found some time to work on it, but I want to make sure I do this in a smart way, so any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[6pack]

If it were me...

then again who am I to say, can't even get my 84 running I would buy a complete 87 drivetrain as it would probably cost more to buy parts piece by piece. Then again you could build the long block and you would know what you have...no surprises! I plan on doing the conversion some day on my 84 and I will probably buy complete package. Good luck!

 

[HOTSIX]

Sounds like you already have your mind made up but....

I got my car 1 year ago and am in the process (near completion) of a complete teardown and rebuild of everything - plus complete resto of the body / paint.

Why not do the original engine - just rebuild it - and put it in ? Sell everything else and that would make the operation much cheaper.

You can get a hotair to go as fast as an 86-87 car - it just takes a bit more work and money. Plus the resale of your car will be much higher if you get tired of it and decide to sell it.

Then again, i'm a hotair fan....


JMO

 

[beyerch]

so you are saying...

So you think I'm better suited to ditch the 87 engine and rebuild the 85?

In a way I tend to agree as I have all of that engine including all accessories and mounts, etc. On the other hand, I really need to tear into that motor to see how bad it really is.

I"m goinjg to tear that engine apart and see how bad it really is.....

Now ... If it spun a bearing, can you turn the cranks on these engines or not??? I have people telling me different things on this.

My goal is not to make a 10 second car. I want something in the 12/13's. Would a crank that has to be turned be ok in that type of application or not?


\\

Originally posted by HOTSIX
Sounds like you already have your mind made up but....

I got my car 1 year ago and am in the process (near completion) of a complete teardown and rebuild of everything - plus complete resto of the body / paint.

Why not do the original engine - just rebuild it - and put it in ? Sell everything else and that would make the operation much cheaper.

You can get a hotair to go as fast as an 86-87 car - it just takes a bit more work and money. Plus the resale of your car will be much higher if you get tired of it and decide to sell it.

Then again, i'm a hotair fan....


JMO

 

[FJM568]

Yes, the turbo crank can be turned(There are people running 9s and 10s with a reground crank, just don't go past 020/020 at the most, can go 030/030 but rolled fillets still need to be visible)...Hell, for the power levels you are at or planning, you could get away with running a NA crank as long as you keep the detonation away...I had one in my motor with 30000 miles on it, alot of detonation and was running 14.0s @ 98 mph with a lousy 60' time at 20#+ boost on it...Ended up popping head gasket due to the wrong head gasket being installed when shop built my motor(they used the NA 3.8L head gasket )

Hell, if you don't want a turbo crank that has been reground 010/010 or 020/020, I'll take it off your hands...

 

[beyerch]

hmmmmmm

Well, I haven't had a chance to look at the 85 crank yet.

The 87 crank I have came from a cheap long block I got. The retard that had the engine tried to say it was in 'perfect' working condition. However, when you get an engine for $500 you know something is up. Of course we dropped the bottom end to find a trashed bearing. The crank is okay except for cylinder 3 or 4. The fillet is gone...... Based on what you said, this crank is most likely junk then if the fillet is gone? Should I have a speed shop look at it for a second opinion?

Originally posted by FJM568
Yes, the turbo crank can be turned(There are people running 9s and 10s with a reground crank, just don't go past 020/020 at the most, can go 030/030 but rolled fillets still need to be visible)...Hell, for the power levels you are at or planning, you could get away with running a NA crank as long as you keep the detonation away...I had one in my motor with 30000 miles on it, alot of detonation and was running 14.0s @ 98 mph with a lousy 60' time at 20#+ boost on it...Ended up popping head gasket due to the wrong head gasket being installed when shop built my motor(they used the NA 3.8L head gasket )

Hell, if you don't want a turbo crank that has been reground 010/010 or 020/020, I'll take it off your hands...

 

[FJM568]

Only if they know what they're looking at...A lot of shops don't really know the difference between a turbo crank and a non-turbo crank...Basically, every 3.8L crank(turbo and non-turbo) has rolled fillet main journals...ONLY the turbo cranks get the rolled fillet rod journals...SO, if your rod journal's fillets look like the main journal's fillets, then you have a turbo crank...But, if it is as damaged as you say, than, your crank is junk...My original 85 crank was so bad, the shop that rebuilt my motor said it wouldn't clean up at 040 under

Heck, if you've got a dig. camera, snap a pic of the journal you think is bad, and email me a pic...I could take a look at it if the pic is clear enough to see where the fillets are supposed to be to tell you if it could be fixed...Also, the bearing that was on that journal, on the back will have numbers on it(like 001, 010, 020), if you could take a look at that and tell what it says, that will be a little more info for us to help you out with...

 

[HOTSIX]

You are doing the same type target ET as I. I say tear into the 85 and look at it first. A rebuild isn't gonna run you that much cash (hopefully).

My crank was turned .010 / .010 and I was told it would be no problem whatsoever.

It's just so much hassle to get a decent 86-87 drivetrain then transplant it into the 85. You need wiring harness(es) and
many parts are quite different from the 85 to 86-87 car. I looked at it as an option and decided no way.

Stick to the 85 and do a rebuild - lotsa parts out there and while you have it apart doing the rebuild you can maybe throw a cam (maybe!!!) into it, double roller timing chaing and lits of other lil good parts to make the original even stronger.

Keep us updated.

 

[beyerch]

pictures

Yes,

I have pictures, as soon as I find them, I'll post it.

charles

 

[FJM568]

Don't think pics will post here anymore...unless you link to them on a website somewhere...

Just send me an email of the pics...

 

[beyerch]

pictures

Here are some pics.....

http://67.104.247.221/badbearing.jpg

http://67.104.247.221/badjournal.jpg

http://67.104.247.221/goodbearing.jpg

Yea or Nea?????

Thanks guys!

 

[FJM568]

Was that the crank out of the 85 motor or the 87 motor??? Did you check both of them??? The one in the pics is TOAST...I also replied to your other post...Check both of the cranks and see which one is better...OR, at the power levels that you are looking to be at, you would be okay to go with a non-turbo crank...just don't boost the crap out of it or detonate it like crazy and you'll be okay...I have heard of a few people(very few) that have run a non-turbo crank into the 11s without any problems, but they tuned ALL the detonation out of it...

As a matter of fact, my motor that was in my car actually had a NA crank along with matching NA head gaskets and it lasted me 30000 miles with a lot of boost(20#+) at the track and tons of detonation...ummm head gasket finally bit the dust and the bearing looked a little worn, but the crank looks to have held out okay...Needless to say, that motor isn't in my car anymore...

But as long as you keep it detonation free, you should be okay...

 

[beyerch]

that is the '87 crank.

I haven't even taken the 85 engine apart yet.

That is going to happen this week......

Maybe I'll just dig up a NA crank. I'm going to assume the 85 one is toast as well as the guy that owned the car was a complete retard and he probably destroyed that engine......

He said it had a minor rod knock, but after seeing his handiwork on the replacement 350 v8 engine, i have no confidence at all.

 

[FJM568]

Well, if the 85 motor had a rod knock, it's probably toast as well...Take a look at it anyway, maybe it's in better shape...If it won't clean up at 010/010, then a 020/020 crank is fine too...even a 030/030 crank is plenty strong if the rolled fillets are intact and untouched...

The minor diameter of the rolled fillets is where the strength is on these cranks...The actual bearing journal diameter isn't where the journal gets it's strength from, it's in the corner...The rolled fillets are actually pressure rolled into the journal using many, many tons of pressure(kind of like forging)...It compresses the molecules closer together, making the material more dense, therefore, stronger...So unless the bottom of the rolled fillet isn't ground through, a 030/030 crank should be as strong as a std/std crank...

Hope this answers any questions about these cranks...

Btw, if it doesn't already sound like it, I am a machinist, with some experience in strengths and weaknesses of bearing journals and shafts and such...