Gasoline quality
- Thread starter redhotrod
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redhotrod
Turbo Happy
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- Nov 19, 2002
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http://www.racegas.com/fuelspecs/default.asp
heres something interesting on sunoco race fuels. To darn expensive to use daily though.
heres something interesting on sunoco race fuels. To darn expensive to use daily though.
turbojimmy
Supporting Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
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- 5,560
I have a question about aging......
The local Sunoco has a 100 octane GT pump. I run it almost exclusively in my GN (I put less than 2k miles a year on it). I'm in the middle of a injector swap right now and noticed that the gas had that "old smell" to it - you know what I'm talking about. Now I had just filled the thing up a week or two ago.
So is there any point in buying 100 octane gas if the guy doesn't move enough of it that it sits there for a very long time? What does age do to the octane rating. Am I just better off with 94 and alky? At the track this year I think I'm going to try the 110 unleaded Sunoco (that's as high as they go in unleaded, right? or was it 106 or something?)
Jim
The local Sunoco has a 100 octane GT pump. I run it almost exclusively in my GN (I put less than 2k miles a year on it). I'm in the middle of a injector swap right now and noticed that the gas had that "old smell" to it - you know what I'm talking about. Now I had just filled the thing up a week or two ago.
So is there any point in buying 100 octane gas if the guy doesn't move enough of it that it sits there for a very long time? What does age do to the octane rating. Am I just better off with 94 and alky? At the track this year I think I'm going to try the 110 unleaded Sunoco (that's as high as they go in unleaded, right? or was it 106 or something?)
Jim
stickybones
What?
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- Dec 27, 2001
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- 1,069
104 is the highest unleaded I've heard of.
Little6pack
Active Member
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- Jun 2, 2002
- Messages
- 11,676
I like the OCTAINE Jack Daniels supplies 
It's Phillips 66
http://beardenracefuels.com/listempro.php?file=products&newsno=1008
The light blue colored gas. RM/2 = 111Oct
$3.25 a gal from tall man oil company.
I mix 2-3 gal every tank and it stops the knock.
http://beardenracefuels.com/listempro.php?file=products&newsno=1008
The light blue colored gas. RM/2 = 111Oct
$3.25 a gal from tall man oil company.
I mix 2-3 gal every tank and it stops the knock.
No not really. Most hardcore guys use a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of the fuel. You will definitely lose power using older fuel. You could probably make more power on fresher fuel with few points less octane. I know some of the racer I've talked to have made more horsepower on fresh 112 compared to stale 114.
As mentioned all the gas comes from the same pipelines. It's just the additive packages that change.
BP, seems to be the best at the moment, from what I've heard. Thou they got a bad rap a few years ago when trying out some different sort of brews.
Shell adds mangenese, and gives you nice pickish colored plugs. Which can be condusive to high load ignition misses.
Exxon/Mobil/Union, all seem to be average brews.
Some of the discount stations, actually fare well since the gas is so Fresh.
Once you get past Detonation Threshold tuning, octane isn't quite as critical. IMO, it's marginal tuning that makes a car extremely sensitive to octane. A street car should have some cushion in it's tune.
BP, seems to be the best at the moment, from what I've heard. Thou they got a bad rap a few years ago when trying out some different sort of brews.
Shell adds mangenese, and gives you nice pickish colored plugs. Which can be condusive to high load ignition misses.
Exxon/Mobil/Union, all seem to be average brews.
Some of the discount stations, actually fare well since the gas is so Fresh.
Once you get past Detonation Threshold tuning, octane isn't quite as critical. IMO, it's marginal tuning that makes a car extremely sensitive to octane. A street car should have some cushion in it's tune.
But what about the original question as to why gas has changed?
It is the ever tightening standards of the EPA. Getting rid of lead a good idea? You bet, the stuff is toxic to the nervous system. But now they are out of control in setting arbitrary and unfounded clean air standards. With tougher standards, new cleaner additives are the way to get octane are $.
Hey Gautier, can you say how many blends are required now? Ive heard about 22 during the Summer. Also, are the new Clintonian Clean air standards going to cause refineries more headaches/costs?
From what I understand, the oil comps get more gas froma given unit of crude nowadays. And it is easier now than ever to fool the public with varied octanes given cars ability to control knock. Funny how ads used to trump performance, now they advertise for a cleaner environment. Our society has been brainwashed with front wheel drive, environmentallillness, and bad gas. We are made to feel bad at even having combustion engines.
BTW first time i floored my 71 gto rebuilt motor it pinged horribly-I had the state test it. It was 88.1oct from the 93 spigot! This was from a mom/pop Mohammed type store. There is some way that the trucks can pump wrong fuel into wrong tank in the dark of the night! A GN could have possibly died from an incident like this!
Gasoline is just one of those things that will get worse while going up in $ due to population growth and the fact that other countries are starting to drive cars more.
Globalism sucs.
It is the ever tightening standards of the EPA. Getting rid of lead a good idea? You bet, the stuff is toxic to the nervous system. But now they are out of control in setting arbitrary and unfounded clean air standards. With tougher standards, new cleaner additives are the way to get octane are $.
Hey Gautier, can you say how many blends are required now? Ive heard about 22 during the Summer. Also, are the new Clintonian Clean air standards going to cause refineries more headaches/costs?
From what I understand, the oil comps get more gas froma given unit of crude nowadays. And it is easier now than ever to fool the public with varied octanes given cars ability to control knock. Funny how ads used to trump performance, now they advertise for a cleaner environment. Our society has been brainwashed with front wheel drive, environmentallillness, and bad gas. We are made to feel bad at even having combustion engines.
BTW first time i floored my 71 gto rebuilt motor it pinged horribly-I had the state test it. It was 88.1oct from the 93 spigot! This was from a mom/pop Mohammed type store. There is some way that the trucks can pump wrong fuel into wrong tank in the dark of the night! A GN could have possibly died from an incident like this!
Gasoline is just one of those things that will get worse while going up in $ due to population growth and the fact that other countries are starting to drive cars more.
Globalism sucs.
One point at a time:
1. Additives have no effect on Octane. The octane readings are all made during and after the blend. Before additives go in. The inability to use lead and now MTBE do make the blend's composition different to achieve the same octane. Compostition varies w/season and vapor pressure anyway.
2. As for the number of blends, we have only 4 for the full year.
Winter, Transition, Summer and Intermediate. California refineries and places that make Reformulated Gasoline may have more. I'm not sure.
3. The EPA and DEQ are the mortal enemies of refining from a $$$ standpoint. However, we follow the rules to the letter and self-report any violations (spills, opacity of flare smoke, etc.)
4. We do, indeed, extract far more product from a barrel of crude oil than we used to. We also use far more "sour" (sulfur containing) crudes from parts of the world that you might not even know are in the oil business. No one's being fooled by octane ratings. They are what they say they are. Modern, low performance cars are, however, far more tolerant of gasoline quality variations than cars like your "Goat" were.
5. Human error on what goes in the underground tanks is always a possibility. They also mix "plus" (89 octane) grade "on site" sometimes and in the trucks frequently. Supposed to be a 35/65 split of Supreme and Regular but who knows how close they got it??
6. I agree that gasoline is expensive. The argument has been made many times that if gasoline prices had kept pace with inflation the way milk has, it'd be over $30 a gallon. That doesn't mean I like high gas prices, just helps keep it in perspective.
Good discussion!
Good info.
RE : octane, if not additives, I wonder what makes it have octane.
RE: 22 differing Summer blends, yes im talking reformulated crap. Which is used in control of ground level ozone areas. You do know that Southern states will "suddenly have dirty air". For Ala. it will be in 8 of its counties when the Clinton standards come on line in 2005. I bet Miss will have about 6 counties that wont pass.
The RFG is why there is a spike in prices every Spring-and the media only has mentioned the true reason once. Theyu usually try to spin that refineries are the problem. Remeber the midwest Summer spike in 2001? That was from RFG shortages/headaches. Media of course never eluded that environmental laws are so tough.
Gautier, I worked in Miss servicing anesthesia machines for Ohmeda from 1991-1993. Lived in Jackson and stayed on coast once a month -loved your area and Bay st louis!. Of all things one of my best memories was on a lonely weekn ight I saw 2 girls in a T-type. So I had to say something! I was in my comp van so I didnt think it would ofgone over to well-I said to them "good looking car and good looking girls , it dont get no better". It was all stock and they were pleased I new of what it was. It worked- I had some quality time with that wonderful Acadian darked eyed babe. This is Buick related anyway, right?!
RE : octane, if not additives, I wonder what makes it have octane.
RE: 22 differing Summer blends, yes im talking reformulated crap. Which is used in control of ground level ozone areas. You do know that Southern states will "suddenly have dirty air". For Ala. it will be in 8 of its counties when the Clinton standards come on line in 2005. I bet Miss will have about 6 counties that wont pass.
The RFG is why there is a spike in prices every Spring-and the media only has mentioned the true reason once. Theyu usually try to spin that refineries are the problem. Remeber the midwest Summer spike in 2001? That was from RFG shortages/headaches. Media of course never eluded that environmental laws are so tough.
Gautier, I worked in Miss servicing anesthesia machines for Ohmeda from 1991-1993. Lived in Jackson and stayed on coast once a month -loved your area and Bay st louis!. Of all things one of my best memories was on a lonely weekn ight I saw 2 girls in a T-type. So I had to say something! I was in my comp van so I didnt think it would ofgone over to well-I said to them "good looking car and good looking girls , it dont get no better". It was all stock and they were pleased I new of what it was. It worked- I had some quality time with that wonderful Acadian darked eyed babe. This is Buick related anyway, right?!
