Can I get into the low 12's with what I've got? I know I need new valve springs but other than that what do I need to do? My best time of 12.8 was done with a Thrasher 108 chip, 21 lbs of boost, ET Streets, 1.8 60 ft. leaving with 5 lbs of boost. Trying to get all I can out of this combo. What am I missing? Would love to hear from guys with approximate combo's that have done it. Tell me what I need to do. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, R.B.
Help me into the low 12's!
- Thread starter rb68rr
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If you know everything is working condition, good pump, good MAF (you have those covered) and no other issues, Here are things that will help:
Gutted cat
Ported elbow
Valve springs
28" tires
Bellmouthed intercooler necks (a big neck works even better)
Spray down the intercooler with water so its cool before run
right side airbag @ 20 psi
loosen an end link or remove the front swaybar
TCC lockup switch.
A better launch technique: Leave with your foot planted and NO feathering.
The two problems I see up front are the low mph and the slow 60 ft time for ET streets. Get the mph up to 110 and you will run 12.3's even with a 1.8 60 ft. Get the mph up to 108 and you will run 12.3's with a 1.7 60 ft. Both mphs and 60fts should be well within the capabilities of your stock combination, with the parts you have.
Gutted cat
Ported elbow
Valve springs
28" tires
Bellmouthed intercooler necks (a big neck works even better)
Spray down the intercooler with water so its cool before run
right side airbag @ 20 psi
loosen an end link or remove the front swaybar
TCC lockup switch.
A better launch technique: Leave with your foot planted and NO feathering.
The two problems I see up front are the low mph and the slow 60 ft time for ET streets. Get the mph up to 110 and you will run 12.3's even with a 1.8 60 ft. Get the mph up to 108 and you will run 12.3's with a 1.7 60 ft. Both mphs and 60fts should be well within the capabilities of your stock combination, with the parts you have.
What??? I would not suggest the 28" tire. What would that do, other than change your gear ratio a good bit? These cars make most of their ET down low, so why change it's low end gear ratio to possibly hurt the 60' time further? I assume you're suggesting this from a mph standpoint? However much change it causes, I wouldn't do it. Tires are not the issue here, IMO.
Your launch is weak, and has much room for ET improvement. A general rule of thumb is; a tenth off 60' is worth 2 tenths on the 1/4 mile ET. I agree with everything else UNGN is saying though.
I used to cut 1.71 60's in virtually stock condition, 10 years ago, on McCreary dirt track tires, so I know you can get it much further down than the 1.8's with your ET Streets! Have you ever tried the poor man's launch technique of setting the parking brake, and holding the foot brake too? I used to hold 10-12psi off the line like that, per the above combo. It yielded me 12.61 at 106mph. However, I too had a stock fuel system and even stock pump. You would benefit in mph with an exhaust cut-out for sure too! Try cleaning your intercooler out too, as it may be oil soaked, therefore not disipating heat. Your mph is surprisingly low too, for running 21psi and having adequate fuel. What Fuel Pressure are you running? Is it holding it all the way down the track. Have you adjusted it to fatten or lean it out, whichever is needed?
You certainly have enough to run mid 12's at the very least, if all things are working properly.
Originally posted by ALBERTAN
28" tires on a car running a 103 trap speed?
Tell me more cause I am missing something here.
Forget what you've ever learned about gear reduction when dealing with a TR. These cars aren't Mustangs. Slapping a set of 4.11's (even seemingly mild 3.73's) on one is one of the biggest performance mistakes you can make.
A stock 3.8L turbo's horsepower peak is 4400 rpm. If a car has weak valvesprings, horsepower falls off a cliff right at or slightly above this. If Ron's car is truly being RPM limited by the valvesprings, 28" tires will allow 7% more mph at the same RPM. So instead of 103 mph they will allow 110, before the lights are turned off.
Because of their low HP peak, 28" tires are actually easier for a stock TR motor to pull over 90 mph than 26" tires. Because TR's are usually traction limited at the start, 28" tires help there, too by making reducing the gear reduction and reducing the likihood of tire spin.
Five years ago I laughed at people who ran 28" tires on near stock cars until I noticed that they were faster than me with less tuning and mods. I am now a believer.
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
- Messages
- 2,576
How did the 28" tires ride compared to the stock size?
UNGN,
How did the 28 inch tires ride? I'm looking to ease the harsh ride of my TTA and looking at a 245/60-16 tire (the same tread width as stock and 27.xx tall) hoping the car will ride a little less harshly....Any thoughts?
Thanks
UNGN,
How did the 28 inch tires ride? I'm looking to ease the harsh ride of my TTA and looking at a 245/60-16 tire (the same tread width as stock and 27.xx tall) hoping the car will ride a little less harshly....Any thoughts?
Thanks
low 12's
rb68rr,
I'm now going low 12's with my setup right now, It's my goal
to run 12.0 with this combo. I'm running the 26x10 ET Drags
and my 60 ft times are killer, but the car lays down on the big
end, just stops pulling. I feel that if I can keep it pulling on top,
I may get my 12.0. I have new valve springs on order, and I'll
also be running new Bluetops next time out. My 02's are getting
dangerously lean in 3rd gear and I know I'm running out of
injector (my sig is wrong, I've got 32 lb injectors right now)
You are probably going to run out of injector like me, so before
you do some damage, get some bigger injectors.
My first pass was on my ET Streets, and it went 2.03 in the 60,
spinning them through first gear, the slicks did much better,
giving me 1.64 in the 60. So slicks would probably help you
achive your goals also.
Good luck!
rb68rr,
I'm now going low 12's with my setup right now, It's my goal
to run 12.0 with this combo. I'm running the 26x10 ET Drags
and my 60 ft times are killer, but the car lays down on the big
end, just stops pulling. I feel that if I can keep it pulling on top,
I may get my 12.0. I have new valve springs on order, and I'll
also be running new Bluetops next time out. My 02's are getting
dangerously lean in 3rd gear and I know I'm running out of
injector (my sig is wrong, I've got 32 lb injectors right now)
You are probably going to run out of injector like me, so before
you do some damage, get some bigger injectors.
My first pass was on my ET Streets, and it went 2.03 in the 60,
spinning them through first gear, the slicks did much better,
giving me 1.64 in the 60. So slicks would probably help you
achive your goals also.
Good luck!
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 3,205
He doesnt have a 3200 stall converter like yours. Bet that makes a difference.
I wouldn't think of going to a lower gear. If anything I'd go taller to load the motor...these cars love it!!!
I hear what you are saying about the 28s on the big end. But I thought that you needed a car making the power to run high elevens before the 28's wouldn't kill your 60's.
Hey man if 28's are a go for stock cars as well then I have a set of 26X10 ET Streets with all of 8 passes on them for sale. 
See my sig..
If you get your car tuned to run about 110 with 26" then you may be better off with 28's.. I'm running 26" and I have a few more things to try to get my mph up and if I can then 28's may help a bit more. A 28" should add more mph at my power/ET level.
Make sure you have good injectors and a pump then work on your 60's... I launch with 15psi of boost in order to get good ET's.. My 60' is EVERYTHING for my car. I hope to hit 11's next time out with my combo..
ks
If you get your car tuned to run about 110 with 26" then you may be better off with 28's.. I'm running 26" and I have a few more things to try to get my mph up and if I can then 28's may help a bit more. A 28" should add more mph at my power/ET level.
Make sure you have good injectors and a pump then work on your 60's... I launch with 15psi of boost in order to get good ET's.. My 60' is EVERYTHING for my car. I hope to hit 11's next time out with my combo..
ks
Originally posted by KEVINS
Make sure you have good injectors and a pump then work on your 60's... I launch with 15psi of boost in order to get good ET's.. My 60' is EVERYTHING for my car. I hope to hit 11's next time out with my combo..
ks
Good points Kevin. Last weekend I took the GN out for the first time...all stock except the V4, big mouth, ET Streets, and air bags. I ran a best of 13.004 @ 107 on a 1.96 60'. Pretty good for a non posi car I think. I think I could have launched it harder, but at any rate I was running 48 pounds of fuel pressure and the injectors were at 115%. Good thing the 50lb'ers are sitting in the garage.
Makes me wonder how guys are getting low twelves with stock injectors/turbo/ IC. Kudos guys...that's some great tuning.
Turbojorge
Unstoppable
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,123
Try running a different race chip with more timing if you only want to run 21 psi.
The key to low ET with a stock motor (heads, cam, intake) is to run timing. Your 60's are also very important.
Kevins, I don't know how you do it man. 15psi lanches and your car bites. At 10psi, my car sends me left, then right until I finally straighten the thing out at about the 60' mark. Thats with MT ET Drags 26X10.5, pinnion snubber, Air bags (DS 7, PS 27) and tire pressure at 12psi.
I'd kill for a high 1.7/low 1.8.
The key to low ET with a stock motor (heads, cam, intake) is to run timing. Your 60's are also very important.
Kevins, I don't know how you do it man. 15psi lanches and your car bites. At 10psi, my car sends me left, then right until I finally straighten the thing out at about the 60' mark. Thats with MT ET Drags 26X10.5, pinnion snubber, Air bags (DS 7, PS 27) and tire pressure at 12psi.
I'd kill for a high 1.7/low 1.8.
Originally posted by jojo
Alberton, just out of curiousty how quick are those lightings?? because ive been seeing a couple of those around town. Im just waiting for the opportunity to smoke one of these things
jojo
Pretty fast stock. A little faster than an LS1 out of the hole but passed by one soon after. Very quick with some mods. Most are stock of near stock and not much of a threat. It the owner has some grey matter and a few bucks they are not hard to make faster...a lot faster.
Originally posted by Turbojorge
Kevins, I don't know how you do it man. 15psi lanches and your car bites. At 10psi, my car sends me left, then right until I finally straighten the thing out at about the 60' mark. Thats with MT ET Drags 26X10.5, pinnion snubber, Air bags (DS 7, PS 27) and tire pressure at 12psi.
I'd kill for a high 1.7/low 1.8.
The differences I see are I run 14psi in the tires, 35psi in air bags to keep the rear stiff, I also have lowering springs front and rear which are stiffer than stock springs. If the rear end squats then the rear tires are unloading so you need to keep it fairly stiff. My car launches very hard at those boost levels and the rear doens't move much at all. I changed the geometry of the control arms earlier this year and I hope to get some 1.5's along with an 11.9.
ks
Originally posted by ALBERTAN
Lowering springs like Eibachs are supposed to hurt not help your 60' times I thought.
Justa myth that won't die.. I prefer stiff lowering springs in the rear and a softer spring in front for weight transfer but my car came with some unknown lowering springs like road racing springs in the front and rear and it works perfect for my combo. Instead of the nose of the car raising first the car moves forward first. This helps in weight transfer and quicker 60's. This spring I altered the control arm angles to add more leverage to lift the nose with the stiffer front springs and it works GREAT and you can really feel it but my rear shocks were so worn out that the tires would spin so I had to lower my launches to 14psi thus I was only pulling 1.65-1.7's.
This is a different thread and it's all documented in my web page so lets keep this on track..
ks
