Help me make up my mind. Extender or Max Effort??

[GNVAIR]

I never mind spending the money for a quality product, but I am legitimately torn between these 2. I know there is a substantial difference in pricing and features.
My new combo is a girdled stock short block, ported stock heads, ATR 309H cam, TE45 (.82 turbine), 9x11 convertor, 72lb injectors,
Translator plus
The car is mainly a street driver, with an occasional trip to the track. My goal is maximum tunability. I know there are things that can be done with the Extender that cant be done with the Max Effort and vice versa. I want everyones honest opinions.
Sway me either way. Thanks guys

 

[GNVAIR]

I know people are reading this. Doesnt anyone have an opinion?

 

[KEVINS]

I have no experience with the translator but I do have the ME 16pos so I can not give a direct comparison. But I do like the ME for tuning the fueling... I was getting crappy mileage driving to the track so I adjusted the Cruise Fuel and Bingo! Much better mileage.. I was also able to tune the WOT fueling at a flip of the ThumbWheel.. If I had a little KR then I flipped the TW.. So I guess I am in favor of the adjustability of any chip..

Sorry that I can't give you a direct comparison but maybe this will get the comments coming in...

ks

 

[Dean]

Dang KEVINS, almost make me think about the ME TW!! hehehe

GNVAIR, I'm kinda in the same, though opposite boat as KEVINS in that I have only used the Extender/3", but not the TW. KEVINS make the TW sound real good by switching on the fly, but I wouldn't give up the ability of my setup to allow the ECM to continue doing calculations after 255 gps. I don't want to have to fiddle with anything... I set my base FP for milage and adjust the WOT * & fueling to account for a lead foot, and I'm pretty much done. The exception to that is if it is considerably warmer today than yesterday, in which case I'll pop the cover off the T+ box, take out or add a couple * of timing, and put the cover back on.

Typically for me, once the T+ is set up, I'm pretty much done as I always run 100 unleaded, street or track, so there is nothing to change really. BTW it has been my experience that the chips I get from Bob are always pretty much nuts on, for instance with the base setting on 3", and no changes to fuel or *, 44# FP with 91 pump gas (smog check today!) my BLM table is:

0 - 131
1 - 128
2 - 131
3 - 119
4 - 128
5 - 128
6 - 131
7 - 127
8 - 128
9 - 129
10 - 125
11 - 125
12 - 128
13 - 128
14 - 128
15 - 124 (WOT... 880-900 O2s, 0.0KR, ~16psi)


Sweeeet!

 

[KEVINS]

Now we need a ME with a separate timing thumbwheel...hee hee..

BTW, the fueling that I changed wasn't "on the fly".. I do have to pull over into a lot and change it while the engine is turned off...

ks

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by KEVINS
... the fueling that I changed wasn't "on the fly".. I do have to pull over into a lot and change it while the engine is turned off...

Oh. Well, in that case EXTENDER!!!


BTW, what does a 16P TW go for? My complete T+ setup was ~$600 (~$300 T+, ~$100chip, ~$75 3" MAF, ~$125 ignition harness & 6' cables). Pricey, yes, but the peace of mind of rolling (walking?? ) up to dang near any quality parts store in the country to get a replacement MAF is quite nice. I went through such a fiasco with finding a replacement for my dead stock MAF... I never want that again.

Dean

 

[KEVINS]

approx.. $350 the last I knew.. His web page still says $450 but I don't think he has updated it... Best to contact Steve Y if anybody is interested just to make sure...

ks

 

[Mr URL]

Honestly they BOTH do the job VERY well!!

 

[Steve Wood]

You don't have to pull over to change the fuel, just flick the tw. OOps, I think you meant reprogramming the cruise fuel....

An ME took second in TSM against all the other DFI cars at the Nats. It has never been allowed to run with the conventional chipped cars because of its advantages. $350 for an ME vs $2200 for a good FAST system. ME is both open loop and has no EGR function so it is not intended for emissions tests.

I don't see the advantage to the timing adjustments for performance. Others seem to think it would help. If you think timing helps, buy the Xlator Plus. I think, btw, if you are serious enuf to need a ME, you should know what timing your combo likes.

I like the alky timing set up on my cars with alky. It starts at 21 degs and goes to 23 degs and that helps eliminate transitional knock when cruising. From a standing start, I use the race timing side of the chip.

There are a number of nine second cars running MEs.

 

[KEVINS]

[/i]I don't see the advantage to the timing adjustments for performance. Others seem to think it would help. If you think timing helps, buy the Xlator Plus. I think, btw, if you are serious enuf to need a ME, you should know what timing your combo likes.

I can see adjusting the timing... I have asked many questions about timing on these cars and by the lack of public responses I thought they were dumb questions. That is until I started getting private messages from chip burners and others and I found out that I hit a "secret nerve" with my questions.. I have learned a few things and am sworn to to keep my mouth shut about them...period. Will I ever get a translator? I dunno...It's something that I wouldn't mind playing around with to try things out but I have more important things to concentrate on. I do think that the ability to change timing is more for the racer who likes to tune every last hundreth and that's what may be expected by doing it. BTW, I sent off my ME to get the timing changed

ks

 

[Dean]

The advantage I see to having timing adjustments available maybe has more to do with the way I set & run up my car. My combination has changed recently, but before when I ran a TA49 & 009s, I had the fuel pressure set for optimal idle & light cruise BLMs, boost set to ~22 all the time (never changed), and then adjusted the timing (typically set at 26*) to suit the fuel in the tank (typically 100 unleaded) and atmospheric conditions. The changes typically involved adding or taking out 2*.

Very simple, but as we all know, there are lots of ways to skin a cat (sorry PETA!)


:-Dean

 

[TurboDave]

I can add what little I know about things.
I can't say much about the ME because I have no first hand experience with it, other than I've heard nothing bad.
You must keep in mind it is an open loop chip, so for street use it may not be the perfect solution(but as I said I don't know).

I've been involved with the Translator family and Extenders almost since their inception, so I can talk fairly knowledgebly about them.

The best overall combination would be the Translator plus (T+), (adds timing adjustments) and the latest Extender chip.
The beauty of the T+ and Extender in combination is as I've happily learned over the last season of racing is: It works PERFECTLY as a full on street chip, AND a full on race chip!! My pre race preps at the track have become almost boring now. No chip changes, no wastegate actuator rod changes (burning fingers). BTW I also run BstC boost command for boost control.
When I arrive at the track I just turn the boost commander all the way up (well maybe 3/4 to start). Change the timing settings in the T+ from my street values to what I'll need at the track, and that's about it.

The Extender has many other neat features that lots of folks don't even know about. The anti-theft and convenience features are the best known.
But the chip can also be "told" to run in open loop idle mode. And if you feel the need, you can also "tell" the chip to run in open loop all the time (sorta like the ME).

Of course, to take full advantage of the WOT fuel tuning in the Translator, you'll need the Extender, and the T+ just adds BASE and WOT timing adjustments. Something I've found to be invaluable for those nasty every changing track (weather/altitude) conditions.

Don't hesitate to holler if anyone has more specific questions!!

But here's a link that has tons of info on the Translator/Extenders.
http://www.ramchargers.com/RamNews/Translator/index.htm

 

[turboaddict2]

Thats a great link you provided Dave! Thanks!

 

[JayC]

I have a chip that allows you to alter your WOT fuel curve on the fly. Thought I'd throw that out there since everyone seems to think that the ME and Extender are the only chips that give you any control over fuel.

Only problem is mine isnt really very newbie friendly so I don't talk about it much. It allows you to make radical changes in your fuel curve instantly with little regard to safety (Although there are some safety provisions).

Either way, though, with whatever you chose, Bob and Steve's stuff both work excellent and I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever way you go.

 

[Mile Hi GN]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
My goal is maximum tunability

Then chose the translator + / extender package.

Both systems offer control over the fueling. The T+/E adds timing into your tuning tools. Allowing you to independently adjust base timing (covers the entire RPM band) and WOT timing. Play the game, timing versus boost, retard the base timing for spool-up, advance it for WOT once you leave the line.

I have BstC also, while I wouldn't go so far as to characterize track tuning with this set-up as boring, it does provide good control over the 3 critical parameters: Boost, Timing and Fuel.

If you are like me, and in constant "upgrade" mode, having control over these 3 parameters is a huge advantage as you tweak the combination.

 

[Bobtempest]

I have used the Max Effort and had great results. Steve will gave you the best support if you need it. He is super person , that backs his product. He even has a No MAF Max Effort these days. Check it out.