Is it better to hook up a 301 turbo, or a 350?

[twin turboz]

I know very little about these cars, but I got a 81 turbo trans am. I know absolutly NOTHING about it. I can't find the specs on it. I am missing the turbo though. Should I just get a 350 and put performance parts on it, or put the performance parts on the 301?

 

[Ttype83]

Learn about your car here: http://publish.uwo.ca/~agrehorn/301shrine.html

You will find that tweaking a turbo will give you better results than with a 350. Having a low 13 sec car on the street is fast.
Try doing that with your 350 and see how much it will cost to do and maintain. JMHO
Jim

 

[80TTAPaceCar]

stick with poncho power. get a 400 or 455 my .02$

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by twin turboz
Should I just get a 350 and put performance parts on it, or put the performance parts on the 301?

I personally would keep the 301 and do some minor mods like Neil Smedley's 12.40 Turbo T/A. It would be a shame to pull a turbo motor out of a turbo car because they are somewhat rare. I am keeping mine as a turbo motor in my Turbo T/A SE with some minor mods. (just my .02 cents)

 

[mygrain]

If I were the owner of the car, I would go with a big block. I also would go with a chevy engine. They are super easy to find parts for and they have certainly proved themselves. I also have a 1979 Smokey and the Bandit edition car in my family. It has a 400 pontiac with a 4 speed. Its not easy finding parts for that engine, and when I do, they are twice the price of a chevy. The late 70's/early 80's TA's are my favorite body style.

 

[80TTAPaceCar]

if you do go with the chevy 350 you will have to get new motor mounts and brackets and chevy tranny to bolt up to the 350 and i think the driveshafts are shorter, poncho transplant is much easier, there is tons of parts out there if you got the $$

 

[b4black]

The ONLY motor that makes sense in a 80/81 Turbo TA, other than the 301T, would be a 86/87 Buick Turbo V6.

If you want a SBC 350, sell the TA and get a Camaro.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Jim Puehl]

Depending now what you want to do with the car, doing the mods. that Neil did to get into the 12.40's wont work on the street, i.e. drag slicks, skinny's up front, no wastegate, highly modified exhaust w/no muffs., race converter, manual steering, cam, filled block, etc, oh don't forget 110 octane fuel

If you want a fast street car, pump gas will limit what you can do with the Turbo motor. You'll have more reliability out of an N/A motor like a 400 or 455. Nothing but a Pontiac should be in a Pontiac.

 

[mygrain]

Posted by Jim Puehl

If you want a fast street car, pump gas will limit what you can do with the Turbo motor. You'll have more reliability out of an N/A motor like a 400 or 455. Nothing but a Pontiac should be in a Pontiac.

Except a buick

 

[Jim Puehl]

Mygrain, actually you could get the 231 Buick v6 in the '81 Firebird, shouldn't take much to switch it with a non-intercooled turbo. This would be a good choice if you wanted a fast turbo Firebird. A lot more potential than the 301.

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by Jim Puehl
"Depending now what you want to do with the car, doing the mods. that Neil did to get into the 12.40's wont work on the street, i.e. drag slicks, skinny's up front, no wastegate, highly modified exhaust w/no muffs., race converter, manual steering, cam, filled block, etc, oh don't forget 110 octane fuel"

I just want to do the streetable mods, I dont want to take it to the track and run 12.40s I just want to do the tranny and rear end with a few tweeks on the motor uncluding an electric fan.

"Nothing but a Pontiac should be in a Pontiac."

I agree! except the '89 turbo T/A with Buick power

 

[Jim Puehl]

Originally posted by Audiowizard
I just want to do the streetable mods

You're not going to find any aftermarket parts for the 301, except replacement pistons. A looser converter and a gear change will help a little, but keep in mind these motors lay-over at 5000 (almost exactly at 5000 too ) . The stock pistons, rods and crank will handle 6000, but you start slowing down, so gear accordingly.

If you just want to race on the street and dont' care about cornering, then you can swap small sway bars for the big ones and try to get the car as light as possible. I have found that (at least for the '81, '80 should be the same) these cars are really light, especially if you don't have the T-tops. You could easily get the car below 3000 lbs. And loosen up the front end to get weight transfer. You could tighten the pressure side of the waste gate to get some more boost and try H2O or alcohol injection, get rid of the ERG valve, maybe figure a way to may the backward scoop finctional, and tune the hell out of the carb. Also get a big downpipe and free up the exhaust. You could also wrap or coat the cross-over and turine inlet pipe to keep the heat in the exhaust.

There is also some junk cast onto the intake runners that could be grow off to improve flow, but with the thin-wall-casting Pontiac used on the 301, there's not much meat you could remove. Can't bore much past .030" over either.

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by Jim Puehl


You're not going to find any aftermarket parts for the 301, except replacement pistons. A looser converter and a gear change will help a little, but keep in mind these motors lay-over at 5000 (almost exactly at 5000 too ) . The stock pistons, rods and crank will handle 6000, but you start slowing down, so gear accordingly.

Thanks for the info Jim . I already knew about the aftermarket parts not being available but I am going to do an adjustable wastegate rod and some tweeks on the carb. All I want do do is get it a little more grunt over stock with the tranny and rear end changes primarily. You dont see these F bodies on the street anymore so I will have fun cruising it and turning a few heads. I appreciate all the input that you provided .

 

[Neil Smedley]

HEY JIM.....Dont be so encouraging about these slug 301 arnold ziffel manure spreaders. Next thing you know the streets will be full of them.....Neil

 

[Jim Puehl]

Now, if you had a few bucks and you wanted to go 1 step further, you could swap for a set of high compression 400 heads ('68 to '70) and narrow an intake, like an aluminum Edlebroke Performer, have a custom set of headers made and a thin turbo adapter plate and use a set of N/A 301 flat top pistons and you would have a high revving, kick a$$ 301. This is something I want to try as a bracket motor. I also have a few other ideas that I don't want to mention (at least not until I try them) yet. Don't worry Neil, they aren't legal for Stock, so I won't be able to use them to kick your butt on the track

 

[81turbota]

the 301t has potential, it has a big 4" bore and 3" stroke, same as a chevy 302 used in the 67 to 69 Z28, and a lightweight crank and rods. The major problem is the heads and intake, i just picked up a spare 301t complete from carb to oilpan for $100, not to mention the pile of other parts that came with it... (that was canadian $ too) i'm going to build this engine with edelbrock aluminum heads and a bigger turbo and see what happens (hopefully the bottom end doesn't drop out) or maybe i'll see what happens with two stock turbos and carbs on the engine, imagine that, twin turbos and dual quads....

 

[Jim Puehl]

81turbota,

Don't forget that with the Edlebroke heads, or any other Pontiac head for that matter, you'll need a custom intake manifold. You may also have to use a Chevy piston to get the compression ratio right since the 301 has a smaller combustion chamber than the Edlebrock heads.

 

[81turbota]

Already thought of that and itching to try it... pontiacs aren't too hard to make intake manifolds for... you can cut the water crossover off a stock manifold and you already have a seperate lifter valley cover

 

[Jim Puehl]

Instead of going through the expense of the custom stuff for the 301, it would be better to just start with a Pontiac 350. Any Pontiac other than the 301 will be much stronger to start with and the 350 will handle over 7000 rpm (at the finish line anyway). They are internaly balanced, unlike the 301. A 301 is really only good if you have to run a 301.

 

[b4black]

With Buicks, the 3.8 and 4.1 are identical except for the bore (and pistons obviously). Everything else is the same (heads, crank, etc.) It is common to swap 3.8 Turbo set-ups onto 4.1 V6s.

Does the 301 have any other Pontiac motor to do this with? What would it take to use the factory system on a Pontiac 350?