Is my alky not spraying enough?

[GangsterMD]

I went to the track yesterday. It was my first time on a decent 1/4 mile track and the 1st time with the alky control and turbotweak set up. Here's my first pass, and it went downhill fast:

Reaction = .5320
60' = 1.8628
330' = 5.2769
594' = 7.6391
1/8 = 8.1700 (84.75)
1000' = 10.6839
1/4 = 12.8220 (105.37)

This run was at 19# of boost, but turbolink showed 6.7deg of Ret. O2's went 820's to 805.

I tried increasing the blue knob, but it seemed to get worse, as much as 30 deg at one point. I was getting out of it when the guage lit up. O2's got higher - 830's and 840's. I ended up dropping the boost to 18# and taking 3 degrees of timing out of 3rd & 4th gear. I had 0 knock on that run, but only ran 13.50 @ 95, and it felt terrible. So on one of the last runs I noticed that my factory boost guage was reading low - like maybe around 8 or 10 max. So I got wondering... The alky is hooked to the green wire behind the glove box (3 bar map) which is feeding the computer right? If it isn't sensing the extra boost maybe it isn't spraying the extra required alky? I checked the wires at the map and I've got the 5 volts and ground and I have 1.55 volts on the green wire at the map and where I've got it hooked up behind the glove box. The factory boost guage always worked before I hooked up the alky and changed the chip. I don't know how accurate it was, but it always lit up all the way when floored. Mechanical boost guage seems to coincide with turbolink. Please help

 

[GangsterMD]

Forgot to mention that the knock was always and only in 3rd.

 

[GangsterMD]

Oh yeah, and it was hot - like 27 degrees celcius or low to mid 80's and humid. Thanks again.

 

[GangsterMD]

Well I've definately got alky. Here's what I did. I took the alky line off the up pipe. The mechanical boost guage is T'd into the factory line that runs over to the map on the passenger side fender. So I took that line off and hooked it to an air compressor with an air regulator. At about 6# the pump turns on and the alky started to run out of the line. I slowly increased pressure on the air regulator and the alky definately increased. Wow, at around 20 or 25 lbs that pump was really whirling and the alky was coming out like a garden hose. So what's with all the knock in 3rd guys? Maybe now I'm in the wrong section? The TT chip says:
TT 5,6 3095
42# Alcohol
24 / 23 degrees 22 - 24 PSI
So should I have just taken the timing out of 3rd & 4th, and then increased the boost? Or does the fact that my O2's were in the 830's mean I should take some fuel out? But that shouldn't cause the knock right? I've read that the stock turbo's love timing - whatever that means - is 23 degrees in the ball park? I know I've got lots of questions on this thing, please help me out guys.

 

[kingots2004]

dual or single nozzel?ive heard that you can get one to rich and get the same effect.at 19lbs you shouldnt need a bunch of alky anyway.i had 42lbs in mine and swapped to the 60lbs injectors i would do that if your getting serious anyway.i get 17lbs on my car on pump gas with no alky but i always have a little c16 mixed in for good measure.tune it on the street a little before you go back to the track and take it slow and becareful.on the dual nozzel i can run 27lbs with no knock on pump gas.good luck

 

[GangsterMD]

It's a single nozzle system. So is it possible that too much alcohol or fuel could make it knock in 3rd? I never tried to turn down the alcohol - but like I said it did get worse when I cranked it up. I had it in my mind that it wasn't spraying enough. I'm running 94 octane fuel - which has ethanol in it. I've always ran it because it has the highest octane around here at a pump.

 

[kingots2004]

start with a baseline run no alky and see what the motor will do at the point you start to get knock add alittle alky,turn it up again then add a little more alky till you get it where you want it.also you may have to remove some timing every car is different.it takes awhile to get it dialed in.

 

[Razor]

The factory boost guage is calibrated for a 2 bar MAP. Once you install the 3 bar the guage instead of being a 0-15 is a 7-30 PSI guage.

When you run into an issue, it is always best to baby step issues.

I can tell you this, if the LED is changing from red to green(the turnon one) then there is alky flowing. At that point knowing there is physical pressure of alcohol.. next would be to ascertain if the knock in fact is real or false. If your chasing false knock no amount of alcohol or fuel will ever solve that.

The T-link on some cars can pickup interference.. make sure this is not happening. Partially due to the fact the cable plugs into the aldl under the dash. So if you have access to a scanmaster or some other sort of knock guage this may be something for you to look at.

The ET says the car picked up 21 MPH from 84 to 105. This is pretty normal for MPH increase at that performance level. If it was leaning out or knocking bad.. it probably wouldnt of picked up that much.

I would set the boost down and get some clean runs out of the car without alky. Then switch the alky kit on.. and get some clean runs at low boost.. then crank the boost up. Typically most cars you set the blue knob to like 5-6 and thats it.. as the boost increases so will the alky. Note the LED changing from red to green.. this is the key to being 100% certain things are working.

HTH

 

[GangsterMD]

Thanks for the info Razor! I'm trying to learn, and really appreciate your expertice. I'm glad to hear about the boost guage/map deal. So is it possible to get knock from being too rich? I'm running a boost guage and it was going red, and I could hear/feel what I thought was knock. So I'm quite sure it was real. I understand now that I was going about things the wrong way. It was running so good on the street with no signs of knock, so I increased it up to 18 - 19 lbs. I guess I never got into 3rd on the street or I would've seen it. So at the track I thought I could start from there. I seemed to have lost some of your installation and instructions from when I got the kit from you this spring. I don't know if the turn on light is going red before green. I think it has just been going green. Can you give me some help there? And or re-send me the instructions? Would it make sense to test it like I did? That is taking the akly line off and simulating boost with an air regulator, and watch the light? Or when should it turn red then green again? Does 23 degrees timing in 3rd & 4th sound right?
Thanks again.

 

[kingots2004]

3rd gear my timing is if i remember right 19 degrees.again every car is different so get it dialed in on no alky then slowly bring boost upand add your alky.what boost level are you tring for?

 

[Razor]

Thanks for the info Razor! I'm trying to learn, and really appreciate your expertice. I'm glad to hear about the boost guage/map deal. So is it possible to get knock from being too rich? I'm running a boost guage and it was going red, and I could hear/feel what I thought was knock. So I'm quite sure it was real. I understand now that I was going about things the wrong way. It was running so good on the street with no signs of knock, so I increased it up to 18 - 19 lbs. I guess I never got into 3rd on the street or I would've seen it. So at the track I thought I could start from there. I seemed to have lost some of your installation and instructions from when I got the kit from you this spring. I don't know if the turn on light is going red before green. I think it has just been going green. Can you give me some help there? And or re-send me the instructions? Would it make sense to test it like I did? That is taking the akly line off and simulating boost with an air regulator, and watch the light? Or when should it turn red then green again? Does 23 degrees timing in 3rd & 4th sound right?
Thanks again.

Put the car on the highway at 55 MPH and roll into the pedal and watch your scantool. If you need instructions.. you need to email me.

maybe make some time latter in the week and call me early in the day, see what I can do to help. Its hard to fix/tune/troubleshoot cars over keyboards