JW vs. CAT Flexplate

[turbo39151]

Is there anything special about the JW that makes it a better choice than a CAT? Full Throttle has the CAT for $64.00 and the JW for $191.00

Anyone have specific details as to why the JW is 3x's more expensive? Both are Internal balance.

 

[87LtdT]

I just got a CAT and it wouldn't fit...the center hole was .008" smaller in diameter than the crank. When spoke with the Chinese dimwit (Wally) at CAT in LA he told me just to pull it on with the capscrews!!! Also told me that they had made 1000's with no problem...and of course doubted my problem was his fault.

Contacted my engine builder who searched thru the 8-10 CAT flexplates he had in stock (all new) and found the exact same problem with them all. What he will do is buzz them open...I suspect that happens a lot.

I sent this flexplate back to CAT (as they advised) and next day called them and told them that I wanted to purchase a replacment on my credit card and have them send it immediately instead of waiting for the one I had returned to be analyzed..and then when the one I returned got there the could debit it off my account. Couldn't do that the Chinese dimwit on the phone said...because I did not buy the flexplate from them (engine builder did)..."only A to A...not A to B" she said.

Eventually the engine builder opened up the ID of a CAT flexplate and sent to me...but I just couldn't put it on.

Another difference...the 6 capscrew mounting holes are much larger on the CAT than on the others...I prefer a much more precision fit.

The abouve took place in Dec 08.

Good luck, Bob K

 

[callmeebryan]

CAT is chinese made....

 

[3.8vsix]

I also had to open mine up a little to get it to slide on the crank. no biggy

 

[turbo39151]

So, fitment and country of origin issues aside. There is nothing that justifes the 3x's price difference?

 

[87LtdT]

You have to ask youself how good is the CAT when it won't assemble and their rep is telling you to pull it on with the mounting capscrews!! Then when I said I wouldn't do that he advised that there must be something wrong with the crank. My response was that it was a CAT crank. Then his response was that there probably isn't anything wrong with the flexplate...and I was installing it incorrectly. "Wally" was that dip****s "name".

A few guys told me just to get a sand roll and open up the pilot hole until it fits on the crank. Asking for trouble doing that!! It's supposed to be a tight fit so that there is no eccentricity...if eccentric then the internal balance is off and the converter/transmission will rotate with that same eccentricity. Will .005" eccentricity ruin your trans?? I don't know, but I do know that it cannot possibly be a good thing.

I've worked with Chinese automotive parts suppliers in my Engineering job for many years...and can tell you that they will do whatever is necessary to sell you the parts...lie, cheat or steal...the important part is selling you the parts. Have caught them in repeated lies...some so obvious that you are embarrassed for them. Made up data, broken promises, not following agreed upon quality checks, etc etc etc.

Now that I know what I know I wish I had paid more money for a USA crank instead of this unknown quality CAT crank that I have. Was thrilled with the JW flexplate...it fit as it should and I am confident in it's integrity.

I will never again knowingly buy Chinese made parts for my Buick.

Having said all that...will the CAT work?? Probably IMO, but if it causes a trans problem you will never realize it is the culprit... If being installed on a beater then go for it...but if installed on your baby then I wouldn't do it. You get what you pay for here I think.

Bob

 

[JDSfastGN]

I used the cat... I opened it up a bit to get it on. It was still a very tight fit so im not worried one bit. Its not a big deal imo.

 

[pacecarta]

CAT is chinese made....

China Asia Tiawan

 

[LOT]

Cat flexplate

I fixed one for a friend--had to put it in a 10 ton press and press it to get the right curvature so it would not push the convertor hard against the trans pump. Used a stock flexplate to get the right curve. IMO I would never buy or put one on a car. There is your reason why the J&W is more $. Save $130 on the flexplate and ruin a trans pump, convertor or knock out the thrust bearing. Your call, but don't say you weren't warned. Best of luck.--Lee

 

[87LtdT]

So CAT's quality control is not so good...right?? Is the mounting hole ID the only thing their quality sucks at??? How hard is to check a hole diameter?? Easy right?? How hard is it to check material properties?? More difficult... right?? Do you think that they check them?? How about weld quality?? How about gear tooth hardness and spacing?? No, no, no and no would be my responses.

When I see a supplier not bother to check basic dimensions (especially one that is critical to fit) then the rest of their quality control is always in question...

BTW...the reason their hole size is too small is their die has worn...when the die is worn all the parts will be wrong. So that means they are not checking any of them., and the aren't monitoring their production tooling quality. More evidence they aren't checking anything...

They make and sell low quality parts...no doubt about it. But they might not fail, and they might not cause you any other problems. I don't want them in my car though.

Bob

 

[Jeff Rand]

You need one of those Chinese crankshafts; then I bet it will fit perfect.
Jeff

 

[turbobitt]

You need one of those Chinese crankshafts; then I bet it will fit perfect.
Jeff

Jeff,

Read his post above. He has a CAT crank and tried fitting it to a CAT flywheel, still NFG.
In the end, after paying for the rework and aggrivation, I would say the JW wheel justifies the 3x price.
Like Bob, I too spent a lot of time with China made parts. One thing that I would like to point out is that it is also made with China steel. These 4340 cranks you see advertised are actually china equivalents that are very close to our American specs. This doesn't mean the steel is clean and void of any inpurities.
Allan G.

 

[boostingbuick]

I want to know how everone is opening up the hole? To even think that a die grinder would be close is scary. Have been a Machinist, I know how long it takes to set it up and open up the hole correctly. And since the flywheel is hub centric you need to have less than .002 runout. So how much will that cheap flywheel cost? Alot if it makes the crank is out of balance due to the flywheel of center, or the convertor beats up the front pump and bearing. I have and will always run a JW.

 

["More Boost"]

i bought mine for $48 bucks i think. looked like a nice piece, heavy, SFI approved. gold anodized. took it to my machinist w/crank etc. to balance rot. assm. , next day he calls and says he doesnt like my flywheel. i asked why? he said it's balanced funky. i thought (?), so i went out there he showed me how the flywheel was so heavy on one side it would rotate the the crank. if you lifted the weight side of flywheel up. he said i've never seen that before.

i agree with all previous posts regarding CAT flywheels. but, one point that hasnt been pointed out is that the chinese dont "design" anything. they take an american part and copy it. and as with the flywheel we believe that they took a stock flywheel and just made it with thicker metal etc. but with all the "half moon" cut outs in a TR flywheel one side will be heavier than the other. (when u just use thicker the metal), I believe
sorry so long,

 

[SIXBANGR]

mine was out of balance also. machine shop could not use it. They balanced it with a stock one and it was fine.

 

[Pablo]

China Asia Tiawan

haha

it's Taiwan


I love how people freak out about Chinese parts on this forum when nearly all of their clothes, shoes, maybe utensils, their childrens toys, electronics, some of their furniture, etc are made in places like China. These are things you or your children put on your body or in your mouth or in your home with electricity running through them. Potential fire hazards, potential outgassing of resins/adhesives, etc..

And you decide that a flexplate off by .008 is where you draw the line. Apparently you haven't done much measuring on "American" parts. You'd think that with American manufacturing precision there would be no need for camshaft degree wheels and the like. Never mind the fact that being an American manufacturer doesn't make you immune to greed.

 

[87LtdT]

Pablo, if you are talking to me you are way wrong...I spent 22 years measuring US made parts...and by no means are they all perfect. But that wasn't the question was it??

The question had nothing to do with toys or furniture...it was a comparison of CAT and JW flexplates. And IMO there is no comparison.

Component design involves specifying dimensional tolerqances. You can spec all tolerances on a part exceptionally small, but that drives up the cost. So you generally only spec small tolerances on critical features...say ID to OD fit for example...IMO the most critical tolerance on a flexplate. Often the stackup of tolerances involved when many parts are assembled together puts too much play into a system...then one would need something like a degree wheel to insure things are spot on. Or valve lash setting...wouldn't be needed if all the parts involved were perfect...but it's clear that would be way too costly.

An .008" ID miss on a part that by design should have as little eccentricity as possible is huge. And to suggest pulling it on with the capscrews shows just how much they know about things...no comparison.

Bob

 

[hensleyt]

I was looking at the CAT but had some reserve ,I'm done looking.I'm a machinist been one for 30 years .On a OD are ID of 40 in. if I misted it .002 The boss would had my backside.With new CNC Tec that should never happen.
Ill spend the money in the good old USA

 

[87LtdT]

Yeah for you. I don't think people realize what a miss .008" is. At Cummins, our N14 engine with it's front gear train, utilized a cam gear that was induction heated so it would expand and then be slipped onto the cam nose. When the gear cooled the resulting interference was only .003-.004" and it NEVER slipped.

The ID of the CAT flexplate is stamped...can easily see the shear marks. In my experience, Chinese compaines iusually invest as little as possible in tooling on the front end choosing lower quality (less costly) steels that cannot be hardened for long life with they theory to just replace them as they wear. Whereas USA companies usually invest in high quality steel hardened dies with long life on the front end. Either way is OK...IF you change out the soft dies as needed. It's obvious here that CAT does not. In fact, they aren't even measuring them.

Bob

 

[Jerryl]

. . . I've worked with Chinese automotive parts suppliers in my Engineering job for many years...and can tell you that they will do whatever is necessary to sell you the parts...lie, cheat or steal...the important part is selling you the parts. Have caught them in repeated lies...some so obvious that you are embarrassed for them. Made up data, broken promises, not following agreed upon quality checks, etc etc etc.

Now that I know what I know I wish I had paid more money for a USA crank instead of this unknown quality CAT crank that I have. Was thrilled with the JW flexplate...it fit as it should and I am confident in it's integrity.

Well said and very true.
Now, as more manufacturers think they can inspect quality into products, combined with greed, they have been a fair share of US made products that severily dissapointed me. (At least, I was told they were US made)

....... When I see a supplier not bother to check basic dimensions (especially one that is critical to fit) then the rest of their quality control is always in question...

BTW...the reason their hole size is too small is their die has worn...when the die is worn all the parts will be wrong. So that means they are not checking any of them., and the aren't monitoring their production tooling quality. More evidence they aren't checking anything...
Bob

Bingo!
Had the same issue with the oil pump gears.
I got the run around from Melling and never got any help or any real answers. Yes, They SUCK!

. . . . One thing that I would like to point out is that it is also made with China steel. These 4340 cranks you see advertised are actually china equivalents that are very close to our American specs. This doesn't mean the steel is clean and void of any inpurities. . . .

Very true.

. . . . the chinese dont "design" anything. they take an american part and copy it. and as with the flywheel we believe that they took a stock flywheel and just made it with thicker metal etc. but with all the "half moon" cut outs in a TR flywheel one side will be heavier than the other. (when u just use thicker the metal) . . . .

True again.

I was looking at the CAT but had some reserve ,I'm done looking.I'm a machinist been one for 30 years .On a OD are ID of 40 in. if I misted it .002 The boss would had my backside.With new CNC Tec that should never happen.
Ill spend the money in the good old USA

True, but there is a BIG difference between your pride to do the right thing and greed.

I thought about not posting this but I said . . . **** it.
This import greed crap is getting out of hand.
On some "non critical items" it is ok, but when it gets to critical parts/items, it sucks!

OK, so now the question;
At what level do you need one of these flex plates anyway?