Kenne Bell Chip(s) and Turbotweak

[realspartan]

Hi guys,

For my information, what is the difference between a Kenne Bell 9006u chip and a 9006u3 chip? I used a 9006u3 then switched to a Turbotweak. The Turbotweak definitely gives better idle, smoothness and driveability but I feel the Kenne Bell chip gave me more power and performance at full throttle. It seems like there was more boost at higher speeds/gears as well. My car is all stock except for an original hollowed out catalytic converter, Bosch 237 fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump hot wire, 160 thermostat, and no screens in the MAF. I always run 94 octane fuel with some octane boost here and there for extra insurance.

If I switched back to the Kenne Bell chip would it have any adverse effects in the long run? In other words is the Kenne Bell chip to aggresive? Does the Kenne Bell chip actually produce more power than the Turbotweak or am I mistaken?

I basically want the best possible plug and play chip for maximum power without using a scanmaster to adjust anything and so on.

Any comments?

Regards,
Realspartan

 

[novaderrik]

have you tried "tweaking" the TT chip at all?
it could be that the power comes on a lot smoother with the TT chip, so it doesn't feel like it's got as much of a "hit"..

 

[meanchicken]

The chip won't alter your boost, so one can only assume that the added power you felt might have been due to timing that is programmed into the KB chip....or maybe it had less fuel in it putting it lean and mean at the top....which can lead to KABOOM!

You can adjust timing and Fuel in your TT chip....and you shouldn't be flying blind to your tune regardless of what chip you run, especially if you start adding boost.

Have a ScanMaster as a bare minumum and get data logging capability if you want to learn how your tune is really running...and how to max it out for performance and reliability.

 

[just plain john]

I've heard bad things about screenless MAFs, it screws up the calibration.

 

[pacecarta]

The chip won't alter your boost, so one can only assume that the added power you felt might have been due to timing that is programmed into the KB chip....
.

WRONG the chip does control boost using the stock wastegate solenoid which is a PW controlled bleeder that controls the boost in a range of about 5-6psi depending on how much the pw duty is programmed in the chip , the kb chip commands more PW to the solenoid than the TT street ,
stock was about 50% duty in 1-2 and then dropped in 3rd gear
tt street just a little more than stock
tt alky chip commands 100% in 1-2 gears

the kb was about 18 psi ,,, you need to have a scanmaster to see if it knocking!!

if you run the tt it will have less boost commanded than the KB chip , if you crank the boost up the KB also has more timing like 22 deg when the tt has 19/17 .... eric does this is for your safety with todays fuel and because every car is different for safer year round tune not a tune thats good when its cold but knocks when it gets to 80 degrees outside

get the scan master , run it with the TT chip and tune you can add timing but only do that if you arent getting knock , if its ok at the boost in the tt chip you can get a manual boost contoller (tee in a bleeder) add some fuel and then increase the boost and see if it knocks
with the tt chip you can add timing if its safe and add fuel to keep the o2s to a safe level
with stock injectors though both chips will be at near 100%duty on the injectors so adding fuel will only really help before you reach full boost

did i say get a scanmaster

as fo a chip that makes the most power with out a scanmaster , the kb made power but wasnt the safest to run at the top end , 1st and second feels great but on the track you need more than those two gears , you can make the most power just before it knocks as long as theres ample fuel , where that point is youll only know with your car if you monitor knock and your o2s with a scanmaster

 

[84gnguy]

I would stick with the turbo tweek chip,especially if you don't have a scanmaster.

 

[meanchicken]

WRONG the chip does control boost using the stock wastegate solenoid which is a PW controlled bleeder that controls the boost in a range of about 5-6psi depending on how much the pw duty is programmed in the chip , the kb chip commands more PW to the solenoid than the TT street ,
stock was about 50% duty in 1-2 and then dropped in 3rd gear
tt street just a little more than stock
tt alky chip commands 100% in 1-2 gears

the kb was about 18 psi ,,, you need to have a scanmaster to see if it knocking!!

I didn't know that about the KB chip.
That said...the TT chips I've been using do not control boost.
The boost solenoid is disconnected, and boost is controlled with an adj WG and/or a boost controller such as an RJC.

 

[realspartan]

If I understand correctly I can safely use the KB chip with absolute minimum 94 octane correct? By the way as in my original post what is the difference between 9006u chip and a 9006u3 chip.

Regards,
Realspartan

 

[toofastforyou]

By the way as in my original post what is the difference between 9006u chip and a 9006u3 chip.

Regards,
Realspartan

I just checked in an old K-B catalog and here's what is listed:
# KB9006U is a "Ultimate Chip"
# KB9006-160* is a "Ultimate Chip" but with a 160 mph cutoff
# KB9006HF is a "Hot Flash" chip
# KB9006N-160* is a nitrous chip
# KB9006P2 is a "Hi-Lo" pro chip which includes a Hi-Lo switch
# KB9006P2-160* is a "Hi-Lo" pro chip with a 160 mph cutoff and a Hi-Lo switch
Unfortunately, there aren't any specifications. Also, there isn't no mention of a "9006U2 or 9006U3 chip, but maybe it's because my catalog isn't the most recent one available at the time...:redface:

Claude. :wink:

 

[hensleyt]

Kb

I have read (but cant find the link)KB chips have too much timing for todays gas.And the TT chip need at lest one screen, I have limited time with my car but my car came with a KB9006P2 and no scan tool, my first upgrade was a scan tool I made three passes ,all three were 3-4 degrees of NR with Octane boost.That was last time it was stock

 

[realspartan]

Hi,

What do you mean by 3-4 degrees of NR?

regards,
Realspartan

 

[hensleyt]

KR not NR

KR 3-4 degrees Knock Retard.The Gn is equipped with a knock sensor and when the ECM detects knock it will start pulling timing .With the scanmaster it will give you information about how many degrees of KR were pulled , air/fuel ratio and speed KR was detected. Scanmaster is the best money I have spent to prevent something bad happening .It dose more than just monitor KR it is a great tool.I have read the GN can hurt it self with to much knock.

 

[hensleyt]

KR not NR

KR 3-4 degrees Knock Retard.The Gn is equipped with a knock sensor and when the ECM detects knock it will start pulling timing .With the scanmaster it will give you information about how many degrees of KR were pulled , air/fuel ratio and speed KR was detected. Scanmaster is the best money I have spent to prevent something bad happening .It dose more than just monitor KR it is a great tool.I have read the GN can hurt it self with to much knock.You can plug and play the TT without the scanmaster BUT I don't believe I would .

 

[Razor]

Please buy a scanmaster and quit beating on the engine blindly. Your going to beat out it's bearings detonating it.

First mod is a scanmaster.

I sound like a broken record with guys beating on their Buicks like it was a 69 Camaro with a 350 and 2 barrel.

You'll never understand your car until you have a scantool.

Period end of story.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[realspartan]

Thanks for the info. I just need advice for a plug and play chip. My question is now is simple; will I damage my motor with a KB 9006u3 chip running a minimum 94 octane of fuel? My car is seldom used and not abused.

Regards,
Realspartan

 

[theCATman]

Thanks for the info. I just need advice for a plug and play chip. My question is now is simple; will I damage my motor with a KB 9006u3 chip running a minimum 94 octane of fuel? My car is seldom used and not abused.

Regards,
Realspartan

It's not , I repeat, NOT a matter of how good of gas you're running in the car, it's a matter of if the engine is detonating at all. If the KB chip has too much timing and/or boost it will knock.

You have zero idea of what that KB chip is commanding the engine to do. You know what the TT chip is set for, it's written on the chip for Christ's sake.

Do yourself a huge $275 favor and get a Scanmaster to see what's going on. In the mean time, if you really insist on keeping the POS KB chip, keep it out until you get a Scanmaster hooked up. Then if you really feel the need, put the KB chip back in & see if there is any timing retard going on. If not, then you can run the KB chip if you feel it's superior to todays technology.

Lastly, if you so choose, ignore our advise, run what you please without any monitoring, and we'll wait for your next thread titled "What is this rattling sound coming from the bottem end?" followed by the sequel "How much will new headgaskets cost?"

 

[Razor]

Some just don't get it until it hits the pocket book

25 year old car with 25 year old parts making Assumptions

It's not , I repeat, NOT a matter of how good of gas you're running in the car, it's a matter of if the engine is detonating at all. If the KB chip has too much timing and/or boost it will knock.

You have zero idea of what that KB chip is commanding the engine to do. You know what the TT chip is set for, it's written on the chip for Christ's sake.

Do yourself a huge $275 favor and get a Scanmaster to see what's going on. In the mean time, if you really insist on keeping the POS KB chip, keep it out until you get a Scanmaster hooked up. Then if you really feel the need, put the KB chip back in & see if there is any timing retard going on. If not, then you can run the KB chip if you feel it's superior to todays technology.

Lastly, if you so choose, ignore our advise, run what you please without any monitoring, and we'll wait for your next thread titled "What is this rattling sound coming from the bottem end?" followed by the sequel "How much will new headgaskets cost?"

 

[forzfed]

I have read (but cant find the link)KB chips have too much timing for todays gas.And the TT chip need at lest one screen, I have limited time with my car but my car came with a KB9006P2 and no scan tool, my first upgrade was a scan tool I made three passes ,all three were 3-4 degrees of NR with Octane boost.That was last time it was stock

Depends where you live and the gas you use. I've run my old KB Pro-chip with 19psi on 94 and 0 knock. Gave a buddy my KB Hot flash chip which has 26' of timing and he was able to run 16psi with 0' on 94.

 

[realspartan]

Thank you for all the replies including the passionate ones. I'll keep the TT chip in my car to be on the safe side. By the way, I live in Canada as well and use Petro-Canada Premium 94 octane. I also believe that the quality of fuel in Canada today is much better than it was in the late 80's based on my experiences. Some members have stated the opposite is true in the US.

To play devil's advocate how many TR owners have damaged their engines using a 9006u3 KB chip or any other old school chip for that matter? I understand based on the replies that each car is different but some have used many different brands of chips before the current technology of the TT chip came out.

In addition, here is an excerpt from an article I just found on the net with respect to a KB 9006u3 chip:

"Our first move was to quantify the horsepower increase from a switch to a high-performance computer chip. We opted to test the Kenne Bell Ultimate Chip (part No. KB9006U3+, $120) which, among other things, raises boost pressure from stock to 17 psi. According to Kenne Bell, this is the most boost you can run with the 93-octane pump gas we use. Additionally, the torque converter lockup is delayed for added performance, the electric fan trigger temperature is altered for improved engine cooling, and the rpm limit is extended. With no other change than the Ultimate chip, peak horsepower increased to 250 hp (a 25-hp increase over stock).

Since the Buick's Electronic Spark Control (ESC) is responsible for knocking back timing under detonation to protect the engine, and since detonation isn't always heard, we decided to slosh the tank with 5 gallons of VP C-12 race fuel. We wanted to see if there was any benefit to raising the fuel octane with the same Ultimate chip in place. The extra octane was worth, on average, about 10 hp more, but by the point of peak hp there was zero increase over pump gas. Mark one for the folks at Kenne Bell-the spark tables in the Ultimate chip are dead nuts on for pump gas. If we had seen a large increase in power, we would've suspected a spark table with way too much advance."

For the whole article here is the link: http://www.secondstreetspeed.com/articles/low%20buck%20buick/lowbuck_buick.htm[/URL]

Regards,
Realspartan

 

[bmackinnon]

how many TR owners have damaged their engines using a 9006u3 KB chip or any other old school chip for that matter?

No doubt a TON of people have damaged their engines with that POS KB 1980's tech chip, and EVERY OTHER CHIP... because they WEREN'T MONITORING KNOCK!!!! It doesn't matter what fu!king chip you have in there.... if it knocks, you are doing damage.... and you often can't even hear the knock...(like the KB ad...ummm....article above notes) when you hear it, you know, ping,ping,ping... it's SEVERE and DEFINITELY DOING DAMAGE... so nobody can tell you if you are doing damage because you have no way to tell us if it's knocking... buy a fu&king scanmaster and you won't have to ask the question... or don't and hammer on down....enjoying the little time it has left.... jeeez!