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Maf with no screens???

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robzombie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
1,760
I have a friend that has an LS1 maf with no screens in it he will give me.

Does it need the front screen on it or is it okay to use one with no screens??


Thanks Rob.
 
it might run ok, perhaps a little lean at idle. It depends on things like the air filter and underhood turbulence.

If its free, it doesn't hurt to try it.....

Bob
 
FWIW, I've been running a 3 inch LT1 MAF with no screens for ten years. At one point, I swapped in a 3 inch with screens to see if it would idle better (was having an intermittent stalling problem at that time). In my case, it didn't make much of a difference.

Can't comment on a 3.5 inch MAF, maybe they are more sensitive to missing screens, IDK.

I agree that it probably depends on your intake setup. Since I'm running a Tin Man CAI, my air filter is pretty far away from the MAF, which is probably helping me.

If it's free, why not try it? A MAF with no screens will obviously flow more air at high boost than one with screens, which is nice. If it runs OK at idle and low speeds (reasonable BLM's, good tip-in performance, etc), then it's OK. If it runs badly, then no money lost.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Turbo Buick
 
it might run ok, perhaps a little lean at idle. It depends on things like the air filter and underhood turbulence.

If its free, it doesn't hurt to try it.....

Bob


Couldn't you richen up with the knobs in the translator if it was lean?
 
I'm going to try it, and see what happens.

At one point, I swapped in a 3 inch with screens to see if it would idle better (was having an intermittent stalling problem at that time).

I'm having the same problem. My air filter is located under the wheel well next to the frame in back of the bumper and the maf is on the left side of the power steering.

I'm wondering if moving the MAF closer to the turbo would help or hurt???

Has anyone experimented with MAF placement, IE: closer to turbo or closer to air filter and found any significant differences??

Any info pertaining to getting rid of the random stalling /sputtering outside of the DFCO fix would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks R Z
 
I'm going to try it, and see what happens.



I'm having the same problem. My air filter is located under the wheel well in front of the bumper and the maf is on the left side of the power steering.

I'm wondering if moving the MAF closer to the turbo would help or hurt???

Has anyone experimented with MAF placement, IE: closer to turbo or closer to air filter and found any significant differences??

Any info pertaining to getting rid of the random stalling /sputtering outside of the DFCO fix would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks R Z

My problem ended up being due to my turbo fluttering longer-than-average when I let-off the gas (with my combo). The problem was fixed through a change to my chip. See the thread below for details. The MAF screens (i.e. installing a MAF with screens) had no effect on this problem. I'm not sure if this is the same problem you are having, but if it sounds familiar, might be worth a look. I'm also not sure if moving the MAF closer/further away from the turbo would have had any effect.

http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/stalling-issue-any-calibration-ideas.328599/

Good Luck,
 
My problem ended up being due to my turbo fluttering longer-than-average when I let-off the gas (with my combo).

I'm having that happen as well, but not to any great extent.

My problem is worse at zero boost cruising, and when it happens most times I have a little warning as the rpms go up and down like it's hunting them sputters and dies if I don't take it out of OD and put it in drive in time.

Sometimes I get no warning, it will just die when I take my foot off the gas at like 10/20 mph and the tps between .85/1.00.

It has died when backing up out of a driveway as soon as I take my foot off the gas.

It seems that when the throttle blades are snapped shut by just lifting off the pedal at low or no load is when it does it the most.

It drives me crazy as I will try different tuning, running open loop idle and sometimes it will do it in DFCO but not usually, it will hunt and recover 90% of the time.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to look at it right now. RZ.


The stalling is very repeatable - I can make it stall at will by simply stabbing the throttle and then letting off. It will also sometimes stall when I'm just coming to a stop at a traffic light or something.

Just read the link and that's EXACTLY the same as my problem!!!!
I can blip the throttle to like 1,500 rpm and make it die on command.
 
got as datalog or more info on the stalling?

All I have is S/M and the knowledge put forth on the forum right now.

If there is something I should look for on the S/M or anywhere else let me know and I will even take video as most times I can make it stall almost on command.

BTW it only does this after warmup and the computer goes into C/L.

Thanks for taking the time to help me get this problem licked. RZ.
 
just to prove its MAF backwash, unplug the translator and try it. Let me know if the symptom changes.

another test, put the chip in full time open loop (param 12 = 8) and see what happens.

Bob
 
put the chip in full time open loop (param 12 = 8) and see what happens.

I've already done that, that's how it's programmed now.and it helped by reducing the frequency of it happening by about 50%.

I'm in the habit now of putting it in drive whenever I take my foot off the gas below 40mph to activate DFCO as it doesn't stall when the converter is locked.

Do you still want me to unplug the translator???
 
As posted above, I would only experience this problem after the ECU was in closed-loop. I went out and made several short acceleration runs to datalog the problem. I'm not sure if this will help, but here is a datalog of a typical stalling event on my car (before we updated the chip...)

The graph below shows TPS volts and RPM. At about 0.87 seconds, I accelerate moderately from a stop. You can see RPM's climb through first gear and then shift into second gear at around 4.5 seconds. I then let-off the gas at about 5.3 seconds. You can see RPM's drop and the stall occur at 7.46 seconds.

RPM and TPS.png

The second graph shows MAF and Injector PW. At the time I let-off the gas (5.3 seconds), you can see the MAF reading oscillating back-and-forth as the turbo goes into surge ("flutters"). This causes flow reversions in the MAF pipe, which messes-up the MAF reading. Just about the time the reversions stop at 6.64 seconds, the engine stalls - things have gotten too screwed-up for the ECU to save it. Note that injector PW climbs rapidly near the end - more on this in the next graph.

Inj PW and MAF.png

Finally, here is a graph of O2 sensor volts and ECU commanded F/A ratio. The O2 volts start-off rich at the hit of the throttle, then the O2 volts oscillate back-and-forth from about 3.35 seconds until I let-off the throttle at 5.3 seconds (the ECU is running in closed loop, so this is normal). Right after I let-off the throttle, the O2 sensor volts go VERY high (over 800 mV) initially - likely the ECU is responding to the wild MAF readings by putting in too much fuel. However, as the engine RPM's drop, the O2 volts go VERY low - well under 100 mV. At this point, the ECU thinks the engine is running very lean, so it starts trying to add a bunch of fuel (thus the spike in injector PW in the previous graph). In reality, the engine is probably not firing at all, so it's shooting unburned fuel and oxygen out the exhaust, causing the false lean O2 readings. At 7.46 seconds, the engine stalls.

O2 and FA.png

The problem is this: with a Scanmaster, you're only going to get data about once per 1.5 seconds (if I remember correctly). So, you won't be able to see these things happening. I guess you can try to see if you scanmaster is showing very low O2 volts just before the stall, or maybe you can get enough data frames to show the MAF reading oscillating back-and-forth when you lift off the gas.

Your combo is significantly different than mine - especially the turbo. Most of the people reporting these types of problems have small turbos like my TA49 or a TE44, at least as far as I know. Your problem might very well be caused by something else. At least this data might give you some things to look at and consider.

Bob is an incredibly smart guy, so I'm sure you guys can figure it out. Maybe the above will help a little.

Good Luck,
 
The problem is this: with a Scanmaster, you're only going to get data about once per 1.5 seconds (if I remember correctly). So, you won't be able to see these things happening. I guess you can try to see if you scanmaster is showing very low O2 volts just before the stall, or maybe you can get enough data frames to show the MAF reading oscillating back-and-forth when you lift off the gas.

Your combo is significantly different than mine - especially the turbo. Most of the people reporting these types of problems have small turbos like my TA49 or a TE44, at least as far as I know. Your problem might very well be caused by something else. At least this data might give you some things to look at and consider.

Bob is an incredibly smart guy, so I'm sure you guys can figure it out. Maybe the above will help a little.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the input Mike, Bob hopefully can point me in the right direction before I have to ante up for a powerlogger which I plan on getting when the funds permit.
 
I installed the 3.5" LS1 maf with no screen and put the translator on the 3.5" setting and the car seems to run better.
It idles alot smoother and has better throttle response.
I blipped the throttle [closed loop]and it doesn't stall, but it almost did once with continual tries in a row, about three or four in a row before letting it drop back to idle if I recall.
I haven't jumped on it yet as my trans is on the way out and I'm getting one from EA next month so I'll have to wait for the full results but it looks good so far.

Thanks guys for all the advice, Rob.
 
the screens help prevent failure over time, my friend removed his to add power which it does a little but kept burning out the sensors in the MAF, IMO it aint worth it but for free use it and get the screen
 
Update.

The LS1maf with no screens is working better than the LT1 maf with screens that was on there. It's now running almost flawless and getting alot better mileage, more than likely because I can't romp on it.
Stalling is greatly reduced and now only happens at light cruise when I lift off the gas pedal.
I have put about 200 miles on it so far, but haven't jumped on it yet so I will have to report any changes after I fix a few issues that I have right now that prevent me from romping on it.
 
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