manual B/C TECH, pro's help only plz (VERY LONG)

[XxDarkSidexX]

manual boost controller valve questions and ideas.....can anyone fill me in on the details please, im curious as a cat now that this has been brought to my attention.

heres wat i run with all the trim i think my cost installed was like 30$(vac lines and connections). Its Graingers model # 4ZM07 http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...8198&cc item= But after some deeper research on these type of b/c'ers i have some questions.

1.) Each vavle DOES HAVE a Maximum Temperature, usally around 150 or 175 degrees fahrenheit. Doesn't it get this hot inside the engine bay and could it get hot enough to make the vavle not perform to spec if its mounted inside the engine bay?

2.) The grainger vavle says it can handle psi between 5-125psi, and other grainger units can handle upto 300psi. Where as this one in the summet cat. http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...t=TNT-10402-25 while it looks like mine only states to hold 1-25psi? and many other webistes offering mannual boost controllers dont even give any specs about their unit.

3.) I also noticed that each valve in the Grainger site flows a different amount of CFM flow, ranging from 10 to 500 CFM do these CFM numbers play into the quality and performance of a manual boost controller?

4.) Does it matter wat size the valve inlet and outlet are, mine is the 1/8 inch size but i see that they offer a 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch and 1 inch!!! whats the difference with those? and can boost readings be affected by this difference in size?

5.) Could any of these variables be the reason some people, not all people, have problems with their boost controller boost leaking or boost creeping? And could these variables also be the reason some manual boost controllers dont work as well mounted INSIDE the car as compared to inside the engine bay?

6.) Last but not least, does the length of the Vacum line for the boost controller matter in performance? I have heard both no and yes answers to this question. Fill me in!

Anyone got the RIGHT information for me? Anyone do any R&D on this before?
Basically, I DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE UNITS in terms of performance affecting varibles. I have no idea if the 15$ unit works(for our cars of course) just as good as the 100$ units. Here is a list of different controllers, 1st being the cheapest and flowing the least, and 6th being the most expensive and flowing the most.
1-(this is the one i run) http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611748198&ccitem=

2-http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611725384&ccitem=

3-http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611777837&ccitem=

4-http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611784588&ccitem=

5-http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611784587&ccitem=

6-http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611777838&ccitem= I would sell mine (#1 link) and buy this one, if it works better and has less chances of failure on high end applications and performance, 500HP+ GN as an example or 11seconds & faster GN's.
Im using the Grainger sites, but there are dozens of AIR REGULATOR sites with units available. Just google AIR REGULATOR you will find plunty. :wink:

do the ANY of the spec differences affect in anyway possible boost controlling performance??? Thanks for your time and patients for i can't sit and be satisfied anymore without the FACTS! Plunty of variables here that COULD affect performance, but I personally have no experience with this so this is why im asking. :biggrin:

 

[XxDarkSidexX]

i hear none of the specs really matter; and only start to matter when running like 9's in the quarter or have 500+hp. I hear 1/8th inch is fine and it can flow 5 cfm, it will still work fine until it sees huge HP.

anyone?

 

[XxDarkSidexX]

bumped any thoughts??? the differences in specs must affect something!

 

[Blazer406]

Manual B/C...... I'll try and answer some of the questions.....I'm not a pro... but no one else has stepped up to answer anything.

1.) I doubt your engine compartment (at least anywhere you would try and mount the b/c would even come close to exceeding that temp... I wouldn't be too concerned) IMHO... if you want to run that type of regulator style boost controller....I want it inside the car so I can adjust for different temp days.... cause the boost WILL change if it is hot outside vs cold outside.....

2.) The reason for the different pressure readings... is that they are actually air pressure regulators for air compressors... and some air compressors may be multiple stages and get pressures over 150 psi... so if you wanted to regulate one of the two stage compressors.... you probably would want a regulator capable of higer pressures... like 250 psi or something. AS far as what really matters...... that you can regulate your pressure.... (usually less than 30 psi) down to a lower level.... so the range you pick needs fit with your application.

3 and 4) Any of the CFM ratings I'm sure will be fine. You basically have a closed system (the end going to the actuator)... so flow is practically non existant.... no need for 1/4" or larger fittings.

5.) Boost creep can come from several factors... probably the most common is a wastegate puck hole that is not large enough to flow enough exhaust to fully bypass the turbine wheel... therfore allowing the wheel to spin faster than really desired... cause the excess exhaust gas cannot go through the wastegate puck hole.. and causes the turbo to boost higher..... this creep typically happens in the upper RPM ranges... usually not any problem on lower ranges.... Also... these types of b/c devices tend to cause a slight lag maybe when you first spool the turbo up (like when you nail the gas).... which causes the boost to "overshoot" its intended target.... This IMHO is totally different than boost creep.

6.) The length of the vacuum line probably does effect the "response". i.e. the shorter the vacuum line is run.. the less of the above mentioned "overshoot" you might see. IMHO... this shouldn't effect the boost creep at all though.

Now.... for an opinion..... I am currently running a regulator style manual boost controller in my car now.... it exibits all the symptoms I describe above... it is not a very good system IMHO for reliable boost control. Most people who you hear refer to "the grainger valve" are referring to a modified pop-off valve that has some adjustment for the pressure it takes to "pop-off". This is a much better (performance wise) alternative for quick spoolup adjustable manual boost controller. I bought one the other day.. and haven't installed it. Grainger part number 5z763. Check out this old thread on it:

Grainger Valve Thread

Since then..... Race Jace (the thread starter) ..... has taken this same valve done some additional engineering and modified the valve with the proper fittings.... a lighter "ball" for faster response.... and maybe a bleed hole.... but am not sure. RJC racing sells these ready to go with all the enhancements for less than $50.

This valve setup WILL HAVE a MUUUUCH faster spoolup than the regulator style manual b/c. This "pop-off" keeps the w/g shut completely until the pressure gets high enough to "pop-off" therefore suddenly making the wastegate open instantly... reducing boost...... very little spike.

HTH