lyonsd
Active Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 2,698
Re: hmph...
Do they make these high rate Moog springs with NO drop?
Do they make these high rate Moog springs with NO drop?
More suspension questions...
- Thread starter jsta6
- Start date
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lyonsd:
yep.
Check out:
http://www.show-n-go.com/gfiles/g_spring.html
And the other thread:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=25113&referrerid=3922
yep.
Check out:
http://www.show-n-go.com/gfiles/g_spring.html
And the other thread:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=25113&referrerid=3922
turboman38
It costs money to go fast
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2001
- Messages
- 387
I did not see any factory replacement body bushing sets on their website. You could call or email them to see if they have anything to offer.
I replaced the rear 3 bushings on both sides of my T with GM parts. I can try an get you a price on a kit from GM if you'd like.
PST website is www.p-s-t.com
I replaced the rear 3 bushings on both sides of my T with GM parts. I can try an get you a price on a kit from GM if you'd like.
PST website is www.p-s-t.com
Hello there.
Anybody have experience cutting springs?
I have the Moog 5385 rear and Moog 5658 front springs. They lowered the car about 1" in the front and about 1/2" in the rear.
However, I want to go another 1" lower front and rear.
The guy who put them in said that he couldn't cut either set. He said the front are tapered (the tip wraps around) and the rear are closer at the ends then in the middle (variable rate?).
All the g-body sites say that the front can be cut. For example, http://www.show-n-go.net/gfiles/g_spring.html#table One site, http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/springs.shtml says that you have to heat the end and bend it back. Is this really doable?
I have clamps for the rear, but the coils are really far apart, and I am not sure what effect the clamps would have.
Any suggestions?
For anyone who wants to know, I did the suspenion mods on my GN.
Koni shocks - $200 for the set (barely used, they were $400 new)
PST super front end kit - $329 on sale
Moog springs - $70 front, $44 rear
Dunlop GT Qualifier 225/50/15 front and 265/50/15 rear tires.
Car rides great. 100% better. I am close, but not there yet. The car handles great, but it is not "on a rail". I am hoping that lowering it one more inch will get me there.
Anybody have experience cutting springs?
I have the Moog 5385 rear and Moog 5658 front springs. They lowered the car about 1" in the front and about 1/2" in the rear.
However, I want to go another 1" lower front and rear.
The guy who put them in said that he couldn't cut either set. He said the front are tapered (the tip wraps around) and the rear are closer at the ends then in the middle (variable rate?).
All the g-body sites say that the front can be cut. For example, http://www.show-n-go.net/gfiles/g_spring.html#table One site, http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/springs.shtml says that you have to heat the end and bend it back. Is this really doable?
I have clamps for the rear, but the coils are really far apart, and I am not sure what effect the clamps would have.
Any suggestions?
For anyone who wants to know, I did the suspenion mods on my GN.
Koni shocks - $200 for the set (barely used, they were $400 new)
PST super front end kit - $329 on sale
Moog springs - $70 front, $44 rear
Dunlop GT Qualifier 225/50/15 front and 265/50/15 rear tires.
Car rides great. 100% better. I am close, but not there yet. The car handles great, but it is not "on a rail". I am hoping that lowering it one more inch will get me there.
Greetings Folks,
Here are some miscellaneous comments:
1.) Front sway bar contribution to suspension roll stiffness is:
a.) Inversely proportional to square of sway bar swing-arm length;
b.) Inversely proportional to length of bar between frame mounts;
c.) Directly proportional to modulus of steel from which the bar is made;
d.) Directly proportional to bar OD to the 4th power, minus the bar ID to the 4th power (if the bar is hollow,) for that section of the bar between the frame mounts.
2.) Polyurethane suspension bushing bind:
This is a hotly contested topic here. If one defines bind as the prevention of any relative motion between parts, then I've never observed a binding condition in the front or rear of these cars. An earlier post's referral to a rear-suspension bushing bind test is almost completely irrelevant; the suspension's behavior is far different when loaded with the car's weight.
3.) Body bushings:
I agree with the recommendation to avoid PU bushings between the body and frame if you have high-performance tires, as the combination creates a harsh, jiggly ride. Better here to stick with the stock rubber bushings, but use hard bushings at the four body corners. Using the hard bushings at the corners has a number of benefits which would take too long to enumerate here; look back at a recent thread about "installed body bushings but have a question" for further details.
4.) Sway bar versus spring changes:
The recommendaton here has been to start with keeping the sway bars stock, and making the springs stiffer. Unless the stock springs have sagged significantly, I'd recommend just the opposite.
Making the springs stiffer tends to highlight the G-body's overall poor beaming and torsional stiffness to a greater extent than increasing the sway bar's torsional stiffness, given that both methods would be used to create an equivalent roll stiffness.
For a typical G-body F-R weight distribution, and assuming that the front bar uses PU bushings at all points, then a roughly equal front/rear bar diameter (assuming that the front bar is solid,) will tend to make a G-body with a stock suspension and alignment settings handle with neutral self-steering characteristics.
Best,
MAP
Here are some miscellaneous comments:
1.) Front sway bar contribution to suspension roll stiffness is:
a.) Inversely proportional to square of sway bar swing-arm length;
b.) Inversely proportional to length of bar between frame mounts;
c.) Directly proportional to modulus of steel from which the bar is made;
d.) Directly proportional to bar OD to the 4th power, minus the bar ID to the 4th power (if the bar is hollow,) for that section of the bar between the frame mounts.
2.) Polyurethane suspension bushing bind:
This is a hotly contested topic here. If one defines bind as the prevention of any relative motion between parts, then I've never observed a binding condition in the front or rear of these cars. An earlier post's referral to a rear-suspension bushing bind test is almost completely irrelevant; the suspension's behavior is far different when loaded with the car's weight.
3.) Body bushings:
I agree with the recommendation to avoid PU bushings between the body and frame if you have high-performance tires, as the combination creates a harsh, jiggly ride. Better here to stick with the stock rubber bushings, but use hard bushings at the four body corners. Using the hard bushings at the corners has a number of benefits which would take too long to enumerate here; look back at a recent thread about "installed body bushings but have a question" for further details.
4.) Sway bar versus spring changes:
The recommendaton here has been to start with keeping the sway bars stock, and making the springs stiffer. Unless the stock springs have sagged significantly, I'd recommend just the opposite.
Making the springs stiffer tends to highlight the G-body's overall poor beaming and torsional stiffness to a greater extent than increasing the sway bar's torsional stiffness, given that both methods would be used to create an equivalent roll stiffness.
For a typical G-body F-R weight distribution, and assuming that the front bar uses PU bushings at all points, then a roughly equal front/rear bar diameter (assuming that the front bar is solid,) will tend to make a G-body with a stock suspension and alignment settings handle with neutral self-steering characteristics.
Best,
MAP
Buick Beginner
Where is my $$$ going?
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2001
- Messages
- 761
Got some notes for ya
Send me an e-mail, I've got some notes from my recent rebuild that may help, pictures too.
Spectre5050@yahoo.com
BB
Send me an e-mail, I've got some notes from my recent rebuild that may help, pictures too.
Spectre5050@yahoo.com
BB
FWIW to others considering Del-A-Lums from Global West, I did them along with the brass bushing on the passenger sie, and they are excellent. Not harsh, real tight, and I'm picky. There was some advice contrary to this, just be careful who you listen to. I drive my car everyday, and it fels like a stocker as far as ride quality, only it handles much better. Take care.
thanks
Shawn:
Glad you did all of the home work for me, i was thinking about more update to my 86GN, you will have to tell me what you decide on.
I replace my rear spring and shocks, that help out a little. I did put on ALL of the extra braces that is offer in the catalogs, that really helped.
Let me know what you do !!!!!!!!!!!
Paul
Shawn:
Glad you did all of the home work for me, i was thinking about more update to my 86GN, you will have to tell me what you decide on.
I replace my rear spring and shocks, that help out a little. I did put on ALL of the extra braces that is offer in the catalogs, that really helped.
Let me know what you do !!!!!!!!!!!
Paul
1LE do not fit
I am in the same boat as Quadrabog. I bought 1LE bushings and found they do no fit. The rear bushing of the LCA comes close but no cigar. I am saving my bushings to put in the rear at some point.
I put 5660's in the front of my car with new rubber bushings in all locations in the front suspension, new ball joints and outer tie rod ends. I put cc501 coils in the rear. The car has good front to rear balance but since the fronts are linear and the rear are not, the front feels a little more harsh. The rear stiffens up over large bumps but feels softer initially. Also, my 5660's are up too high, they have settled a little but they sit at 26 1/4" at the wheel arch while the back sits at 27". I would like the car 1" lower everywhere.
I am in the same boat as Quadrabog. I bought 1LE bushings and found they do no fit. The rear bushing of the LCA comes close but no cigar. I am saving my bushings to put in the rear at some point.
I put 5660's in the front of my car with new rubber bushings in all locations in the front suspension, new ball joints and outer tie rod ends. I put cc501 coils in the rear. The car has good front to rear balance but since the fronts are linear and the rear are not, the front feels a little more harsh. The rear stiffens up over large bumps but feels softer initially. Also, my 5660's are up too high, they have settled a little but they sit at 26 1/4" at the wheel arch while the back sits at 27". I would like the car 1" lower everywhere.
I have the Del A Lums in my front control arms and they are worth every cent! There is no noise. Nothing like the squeaking and popping from the darn poly's.
I have the 1LE's in all 8 postions in the rear. Again, these work phenominally with the boxed control arms. I have absolutely no wheel hop. I can understand what MAP is saying, but the reason why most people go to higher spring rates is to eliminate the body roll. The higher the rate, the more force is required to compress it. I went with the 5660's in front and can say there was no degredation of ride or any other noises or problems that popped up. The handling improved substantially. The front is atleast 1" lower with the b body spindles. I have the 6435's in the rear which IMHO is head and shoulders better than the cargo coils that were on there. It seems there was just too much of a variation of spring rates which seemed to make the back end roll and rather soft.
I am still using the stock sway bar in my car. Im sure a slightly larger front bar might do something. But why? I am happy with it now.
I have the 1LE's in all 8 postions in the rear. Again, these work phenominally with the boxed control arms. I have absolutely no wheel hop. I can understand what MAP is saying, but the reason why most people go to higher spring rates is to eliminate the body roll. The higher the rate, the more force is required to compress it. I went with the 5660's in front and can say there was no degredation of ride or any other noises or problems that popped up. The handling improved substantially. The front is atleast 1" lower with the b body spindles. I have the 6435's in the rear which IMHO is head and shoulders better than the cargo coils that were on there. It seems there was just too much of a variation of spring rates which seemed to make the back end roll and rather soft.
I am still using the stock sway bar in my car. Im sure a slightly larger front bar might do something. But why? I am happy with it now.
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Nice article in Engine Builder Magazine about Chris Lyons
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