Need help, valve springs for flat tappet cam for M&A heads

[evil666]

Hi
I bought these M&A heads few years ago from a friend of mine, but he was running a roller cam, but on my car I am running a flat tappet erson 214/214. The guy who did the valve job on my car kept the same valve springs on the heads but removed the inner spring and told me that I could run the car like this. And I have been driving the car with those valves springs and my flat tappet cam since 2009. I found out that those valves springs have 140 psi at 1.800 installed height which is way to much for a flat tappet and I don't know how I didn't chop my cam yet. Any ways these days I have been trying to get help on purchasing new valve springs that would go with my heads and cam with no success. These are not popular heads any more and its hard to get some advice. I found these that might work but, but would like some advice ( comp cams 249-26915-12 )
Seat pressure at 1.800 is 105lbs
open pressure 293lbs at 1.200
coil bind 1.100
spring rate 313lbs/inch
OD: top 1.055" Bottom 1.290"
ID: top .650" bottom .885"
Thanks ahead of time.
Marco

 

[boostjunkie]

if the inner spring was removed there no longer 140 lbs springs . best thing is to remove a spring ck seat pressures and buy a new spring based of your cam specs

 

[evil666]

if the inner spring was removed there no longer 140 lbs springs . best thing is to remove a spring ck seat pressures and buy a new spring based of your cam specs

140lbs was with the spring removed. I will try to get in touch with erson cams and see what they say.
Thank you,
Marco

 

[dank GN]

You have been running those springs since 09? Did u test them on a spring pressure tester ? If not almost all springs lose some pressure after they are broken in . So if it was at 140 new then I would imagine they are prob down to around 120ish which isn't bad .

 

[evil666]

You have been running those springs since 09? Did u test them on a spring pressure tester ? If not almost all springs lose some pressure after they are broken in . So if it was at 140 new then I would imagine they are prob down to around 120ish which isn't bad .

To be honest with you those springs have been around for a really long time. The heads that I have use to belong to Eric at Dynotech, which a friend of mine Claude (Too fast for you on this forum) bought off him and then I bought them off my friend. So those valve springs have done their time, and were installed on my car with the inner spring removed back in 2009. They were tested in 2009 at 140lbs, which at the time I didn't know that was too much for a flat tappet cam. Either way, if they did lose some psi, I just want to put a fresh set of valve springs that will go well with the M&A heads and the cam that I have. Just have know clue which valve springs to get and that is why I am asking for help on choosing the right valve springs for my combination over here.
Thanks,
Marco

 

[dank GN]

Y don't u go with a roller to get full potential out of those heads just curious ? What is the duration on your cam ? How much lift? Rockers? Ratio ?

 

[fastblackracing]

To be honest with you those springs have been around for a really long time. The heads that I have use to belong to Eric at Dynotech, which a friend of mine Claude (Too fast for you on this forum) bought off him and then I bought them off my friend. So those valve springs have done their time, and were installed on my car with the inner spring removed back in 2009. They were tested in 2009 at 140lbs, which at the time I didn't know that was too much for a flat tappet cam. Either way, if they did lose some psi, I just want to put a fresh set of valve springs that will go well with the M&A heads and the cam that I have. Just have know clue which valve springs to get and that is why I am asking for help on choosing the right valve springs for my combination over here.
Thanks,
Marco

First thing is in order to know what spring to recommend is are you planning to re-use your retainers? As the steps that are machined into
it have specific diameters and we will need to know what those diameters are so that proper springs can be selected.
Also the valve lift would be helpfull.

I am assuming your target installed height is 1.800 since that number is mentioned.
You can manipulate the installed height a good bit with with offset keepers, shims and different retainers.

And the 140# seat pressure you had is not really the cams enemy but the over the nose pressure is of more importance.
The spring rate in pounds per inch could be low enough that the 140 spring had a good over the nose poundage
and that would be why the cam lived. Really to need to know both open and closed pressure to see the whole picture.

The 26915 will put you at 105# seat and 261# open assuming the cam provides .500 valve lift, this is unknown for now. [1.800 installed]
you would also have to have the matching retainers and seat locators for this spring.

I would prefer more seat pressure than what the 26915 provides, something closer to 120#
which could be achieved by shimming the spring .050-.060.

Pac has the best springs in my opinion and is another option.
let us know the sizes on the retainer.

 

[evil666]

Y don't u go with a roller to get full potential out of those heads just curious ? What is the duration on your cam ? How much lift? Rockers? Ratio ?

You are totally right, I should upgrade to a roller cam. Problem is that I changed turbo (cea 68/70 dbb billet turbo), RJC front mount and a complete new fuel system, bigger lines and a better dual pumper from Racetronix. Ran out of money for the car budget for now and time to work on it. That is why I just want to freshen up the valve springs for now.

 

[evil666]

First thing is in order to know what spring to recommend is are you planning to re-use your retainers? As the steps that are machined into
it have specific diameters and we will need to know what those diameters are so that proper springs can be selected.
Also the valve lift would be helpfull.

I am assuming your target installed height is 1.800 since that number is mentioned.
You can manipulate the installed height a good bit with with offset keepers, shims and different retainers.

And the 140# seat pressure you had is not really the cams enemy but the over the nose pressure is of more importance.
The spring rate in pounds per inch could be low enough that the 140 spring had a good over the nose poundage
and that would be why the cam lived. Really to need to know both open and closed pressure to see the whole picture.

The 26915 will put you at 105# seat and 261# open assuming the cam provides .500 valve lift, this is unknown for now. [1.800 installed]
you would also have to have the matching retainers and seat locators for this spring.

I would prefer more seat pressure than what the 26915 provides, something closer to 120#
which could be achieved by shimming the spring .050-.060.

Pac has the best springs in my opinion and is another option.
let us know the sizes on the retainer.

Thanks for all the info. A bit to much technical for me, could replace a valve spring, but when it comes to shimming, different retainer sizes, knowing which valve springs with the cam specs , I am a little lost. The roller rockers that I am using are 1.6 and here is a sheet with my cam specs.
Thanks a lot for your time and help.
Marco

 

[evil666]

Sorry for the double post of the cam specs.

 

[evil666]

First thing is in order to know what spring to recommend is are you planning to re-use your retainers? As the steps that are machined into
it have specific diameters and we will need to know what those diameters are so that proper springs can be selected.
Also the valve lift would be helpfull.

I am assuming your target installed height is 1.800 since that number is mentioned.
You can manipulate the installed height a good bit with with offset keepers, shims and different retainers.

And the 140# seat pressure you had is not really the cams enemy but the over the nose pressure is of more importance.
The spring rate in pounds per inch could be low enough that the 140 spring had a good over the nose poundage
and that would be why the cam lived. Really to need to know both open and closed pressure to see the whole picture.

The 26915 will put you at 105# seat and 261# open assuming the cam provides .500 valve lift, this is unknown for now. [1.800 installed]
you would also have to have the matching retainers and seat locators for this spring.

I would prefer more seat pressure than what the 26915 provides, something closer to 120#
which could be achieved by shimming the spring .050-.060.

Pac has the best springs in my opinion and is another option.
let us know the sizes on the retainer.

I would have to get the right retainers that would go with the valve springs that I buy (comp cam 787-12) are the retainers that go with the 26915 valve springs. I can't keep the same retainers that I have on my valve springs right now cause they are not the same diameter. At 1.250 open the spring psi is 290 (talking about the springs that are on the car right now. These valve springs with the inner spring in place, the valve springs had 160lbs@ 1.800" and 400lbs @ 1.250".
Marco