NewB with a Hot Air Hybrid. Please Help

[niceguynick50]

I just bought a 63 oldsmobile f85 convertible with an 85 gn engine. The previous owner severely altered the location of the turbo, added an IC, 37lb injectors, afpr. After doing MANY SEARches I have found most people say that you can add an IC or swith to any other turbo other than a ta33 with these cars. Why? This is hard for my to understand when we are turbocharging naturally aspirated vehicles all of the time with no problems. I originally wanted to swap on a holset hx35 and a big front mount, but it sounds like I am better off driving this car off a cliff or swapping in an LS1. Please help!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

you mean they say you cant?

im confused.

LOL

if your talking about Mods, it might be easier for you to do than you think. if the guy already moved the turbo and stuff then an IC shouldnt be hard to add.

post up a pic of your engine bay, that will make it easier to see whats been done.

A.j.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

The previous owner severely altered the location of the turbo, added an IC,

So if it already has an IC...what are you asking???

 

[niceguynick50]

What I am asking is why am I hearing that if you put an IC on one of these cars it will cause problems - I haven't seen any threads explicitly stating what the problems are - just that it won't work. Ditto that for the turbos, but I recall something about a type of seal on the turbo which is why you can't use the later turbos on the earlier cars. Thank you for the response. I took pictures of the car and engine bay, but it kept saying that there was an error when I tried to download them onto the thread. I'd REALLY like you guys to see the pics of the engine bay as the plumbing is quite the sight to see lol. Also, the intercooler that was added to the car looks too small to be efficient for an engine of this HP - I'm guesing approx 250, which I would like to swap. If I try to put the throttle body downstream from the turbo will the ecm tell me to goet bent or what? What about swapping to the later intake manifold? I appreciate the help guys - Thanks

 

[charlief1]

Slow down a little Nick. If your pics are to big then you can't upload them to the site. How are you trying to load them? There are 2 ways to do it and I've done both. If you click on post reply and wait until the page fully loads, you'll see a "manage attachments" about 1/2 to 3/4 down the page. Click on it and you can upload from your puter or from a URL.

As far as an intercooler on a HA engine it should be ok and remember that the stock 86-87 SFI cars had a fairly small intercooler as well so it may not be to small.
The eariler turbos have a 3 piece carbon seal that is used for the carb/ turbo engines but I don't know about the 84-85 turbos. Aj can probibly explain it better than I can, or maybe Jerryl will jump in tomorow. Most of the guys get on friday or sunday/monday so you should get answers better than mine in the next few days.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

Ahh...so it has an IC already, but you fear it may be too small. ALso, because of the...ah...CREATIVE....plumbing of it, you are not sure if it is worth UPGRADING to a larger IC! I get it now. Oh course....I have no answer... I was just very confused as to what the question was! Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

The eariler turbos have a 3 piece carbon seal that is used for the carb/ turbo engines but I don't know about the 84-85 turbos. Aj can probibly explain it better than I can, or maybe Jerryl will jump in tomorow. Most of the guys get on friday or sunday/monday so you should get answers better than mine in the next few days.

The 84/85 HA turbos use a carbon seal as well, as its kinda somewhat related to a draw thru system by having a throttle body in front of turbo inlet. I have found some, 86/87 turbos to still have the carbon seal as well. but its a shot in the dark on 86/87's

:biggrin: A.j.

 

[niceguynick50]

Thanks for the reply guys! I'll try the pics again soon as I know you will all get a good laugh out of it. Carbon seal....I knew why for the draw through carb guys, but it made zero sense to me for the efi stuff. So it is ok to put the IC on the car which puts my mind at ease a little more now. I just couldn't understand how that would cause a problem unless of course it was a draw through carb setup again. Now I am starting to feel a little better. Thanks guys. What should I do for an intake manifold to make a little more power and also put the throttle body where it should be (I hope I don't offend anyone with that remark). I have located a couple of the fwd efi intakes that look good, but I understand there may be isues with coolant paths if I place it with the t-body facing the front of the car. Thanks a bunch! Nick

 

[charlief1]

I can give you a little better idea about the FWD intake issue. I just took pics of the one I have so you can get a better idea of what you're up against.
If you notice the bottom the water flow across the bottom goes from one end to the other. That's why it has to be in a reversed location. Not a big deal really on your set up but with a tight fitting one it would be a problem. Hope this helps you.

 

[Jerryl]

Charlie and Frankenstein are correct.
Any time you have the TB before the turbo inlet, you need the graphite seal.
Results may vary.

If you are going that deep, just configure the TB after the turbo.
Easiest way to add IC is get an 86-87 IC'd set-up.
Cheapest way is to leave it alone. :tongue:

Charlie.
What is required to make the intake fit on a HA?

 

[charlief1]

I goes on with the throttle body facing the firewall. Other than that it's basically the same with a long hose going to the radiator. I was thinking of using it instead of the HA intake I have but you'd need to reconfigure a pipe of some sort to turn it up or to the side. The Ausies have all the parts to do it and have been doing it for a while. I've been visiting "over the pond" on some of the stuff they have and it's really interesting what they're doing. See if you can find sixbangers.com and look at what some of them are doing. It's really wild what those guys think up and if we can get some of the parts over here I think we could hit the IC cars where it hurts.

 

[niceguynick50]

THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!! You guys are AWESOME. That's the one...probably the only one right? Do you think it would be possible to drill and tap coolant passages where we would need them (and plug the ones we don') like people have been doing forever with small block chevys, etc? we could just run a hose from side to side on the outside or by the looks of it possibly underneath the base posibly. It looks like these intakes have an air gap between the plenum and the base of the intake which will help keep the oil from heating the intake charge. Anyone know if these things flow any better than the 84-85 stock intake? Worst case scenario I put it on facing the firewall and have someone tig me a 180 degree box and mount the throttle body facing forward. By the way what would I have to do to use the t-body from this intake or is it the same as the stock one? Thanks again guys! I have a line on 2 of these intakes with one of the t-bodies for $50 if anyone wants to try the same I'll give one up. Nick

 

[niceguynick50]

edit that last post. I just looked at the bottom of the intake again and realized that I would have to either tap and run water lines from the front to back of either sides of the intake or tap into the big coolant pasage that runs acros the bottom of the intake from the t-body side to the opposite side of the intake...still looks VERY doable. Nick

 

[charlief1]

The one way I thought of was to cut the mount off the intake and put it back on at an angle. Since the TB doesn't mount to the intake on a HA you should be able to find a way to mount the turbo directly to the intake something like the HA intake. As far as flow that shouldn't be an issue at all. You don't have the amount of in manifold runners so it's closer to the IC cars as far as a straight shot. The insides are almost identical and would respond to porting in the same manor.
The bottom of the manifold is not in contact with the top except for the EGR passages either so you have better cooling of the charge. If you want more detailed pics tell me and I'll see about taking them for you.

 

[niceguynick50]

Trying to upload pics and can't figure out how to make these damn images smaller! This bytes!

 

[charlief1]

GIMP Free Download - Uberdownloads.com

 

[niceguynick50]

I am beggining to wonder if it is worth doing between the costs of having someone cut, fabricate, and tig weld the necessary portions of this intake to make it all work together.

 

[charlief1]

Well you already have the intercooler and if the car runs good Then leave it alone for now and do some reading on these cars. Knowledge is the key so do some searching and ask more questions on the board in locations you think will get the best response.