Perfomance expectation

[Mad_Trbo]

I've been working on an 87 t-type for a couple of months now. When I bought the car it had been sitting for some time. So I went through it and did the basis spring cleaning jobs (plugs, wires, oil, fuel filter, etc..)

I also had time to do the following ;

add
Walboro fuel pump with hot wire kit
83 lb injectors
3" down pipe / external wastegate with race pipe
PTE stock mount stretch
Turbonetics 66 turbo with ball bearings
Fast XFI
Magnaflow exhaust system
Fuel Pressure guage

Replaced the waterpump
replaced the radiator
Replaced ignition module
Replaced Hi / lo / delay fan relay


Here is my question, I got the car up and running, idles fine. Throttle response is crisp not hesitation no stumble. Took it for a ride and it was well below my expectation. Will the wrong stall converter give rise to poor performance on the street? The stock converter is still in the car. I have a pro torque 3300 or 3400 waiting to go in.

Other tid bits of information. A/F ratio was at around 11 WOT. I rode the war @ WOT all the way to 85 and the car never really picked up and just accelerated. Wondering if this is a tuning issue or typical of the wrong converter.

I halfway expect it to be the converter, but then it could be timing being pulled which I will determine now that I have figured out the logging feature on the XFI.

But honestly guys, if tuned correctly this should be a pretty potent little combination wouldnt you say?

any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[ijames]

What octane, boost, and timing? You will definitely feel an eye-opening difference going from a stock converter to the 3200 stall with the 66 turbo. That said, yes, it should have felt better and better through first and maybe the bottom of second as the boost came up. Again, what boost and how fast did it come up? 11:1 is a little rich for spoolup (but should be ok at say 15 psi and up) and with the tight converter (and especially if you are even richer at the bottom end) the egt's just may have stayed so cold the turbo never really spooled up. On pump gas (93 octane, no alcohol injection) and say 18-19 deg of timing you should be able to run mid to low 12's and 108-110 mph at 18 to maybe 20 psi boost.

 

[Hacksaw]

Even pure stock that T type should be running in the 14's. With what you've done it should be even faster now. It sounds like it's acting like just a non-turbo V6.

Sometimes the hoses from the intercooler to turbo pop lose. Is everything ok with the waste gate setup?

The Kenne Bell GN project article in PHR showed an A/F range of 10 to 12 in the 3250-5250 rpm range with LOTS of horses. 83 lbs injectors are pretty big, though.

Octane problems tend to make a hold back or cut out feeling, although you could try a few gallons of unleaded racing 100 octane to double check.

What did you gap the plugs to? If you gap them to a non turbo width like .042" to .060" it'll run crummy. Is your chip set up to run this combination of parts?

-Mike H.

 

[83ttypecooled]

sluggish

Hi,
Torque converter changes will allow better spool up.If you want to run on the street, 3200 stall is nuts. Wow, isn't that an awful big turbo ? The injectors would also feed 700 hp easy. I think, unless this is designed to be a total drag car, that you need to tone it down.No intent here to shoot down your baby, just think you need to decide where you are going with it. Good luck,and I sincerely mean that!
Dale

 

[Mad_Trbo]

IJAMES

I am using 93 octane fuel and I just let the wastegate spring do it's job. The spring rating is 8 lbs and honestly I never saw it rise above 5 lbs on the guage. Not that the car was moving all that fast, but I wasn't able to keep my eye on the guage for watching other areas of the car. I now know how to log so I will log boost and other areas. The spark map I am using was given to me and if I am reading it correctly it looks lkike it might actually be seeing around 22 degrees of timing, although I need to get the covnersion for KPA to PSI.

hacksaw

I think I put everything together pretty well, I'll review all the connections. The thing I love about this car is that there are just four hose connections vs my eclipse which has way more. I need to do a check on vacum leaks though.

I am running a FAST XFI and the plugs may be gapped incorrectly another good point.

pecooled

your comments are welcome, the car won't be run on the drag strip and I was informed that the stall is pretty streetable. As far as the injectors go, well with the FASt XFI I can go as large as I want. The FAST allows complete adjustability over the pulsewidth and by design i went large so that I would only have to purchase once. That was the desire with the turbo as well, I worked with a gentlemen named Jack Cotton and although he did advise me that the injectors are large. My experience with the import scene leads me to believe this is a prudent move if I want to build a serious street terror.

So on my list of to - do's

1 . check plug gap
2 . Check wastegate set up
3 . check timing
4 . consider running higher octane fuel.

Appreciate the feedback and welcome any more.

 

[Mad_Trbo]

Did a little work this weekend. Found the plugs are gapped properly to .035.

Boost rises to 8lbs and hold steady, it does it pretty quickly actually. I can stomp the accelerator from a 2 - 3 mph roll and the tires will break lose. But at 8lbs even with a more efficient turbo and larger intercooler I am still not seeing the level of performance the car saw off the production line.

Would all agree with this? I am seeing not knock retard, so my thoughts are start turning up he boost a bit, slowly but surely and see what happens.

Any thoughts from the gallery?

 

[Pronto]

What are your expectations? 8lbs on a T66 on a questionable tune with a stock converter? If you crank the boost up it will take you several miles to spool to it, if it ever does.
I'ld double check this: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/recipepage.html
and this: http://www.rjcracing.com/9_10_11_Sec_Perf_Receipes/9_10_11_sec_perf_receipes.html

 

[VadersV6]

A T-66 wasnt made to be run at 8lb of boost. I have a te-44, which tends to be a quick spooling turbo, but when i put my stock torque conveter back in, it felt like I had lost 100hp. Spool up takes forever and a day. You , as well as I, could have bad torque converters cause a D-5 isnt supposed to cause THAT much lag. But take my problem with the quick spooling te-44, and amplify it 50 times to get what you would be experiencing with the T-66 and the stock converter. Swap that converter out and crank up the boost.

 

[Sleeper-6]

Boost It!

I think your issue is definately related to only running 8 lbs of boost. The stock boost on our cars was around 14 Psi. With the better IC you have and those injectors to fuel it You should be able to run 17 - 18 Psi on street gas. Keep a close eye on stuff and avoid detonation (knock) at all costs.
I'm currently running a TE-61 and only a 2800 stall converter, it's definately laggy, but once it spools it takes off. With that ball bearing turbo, you shoulden't be too bad. Although I definately would get that 3200 in there and have some fun.
Ram some air and fuel down that puppy's throat and it should put a smile on your face. :biggrin:

 

[Mad_Trbo]

Ok - those are my thoughts exactly. Next project is to get the other stall converter installed change out the transmission fluid and see what it will do. Should be interesting. I am so used to dealing with a standard transmission, this automatic with stall converter stuff is all foreign.

 

[ijames]

Sounds like everything is okay, you just need to start turning up the boost. I don't think any of us expected that you were starting so low. Like I said, you should be able to get up past 16 and maybe to 19 psi or so, with 93 octane, if the timing in that part of your map is down to 18-19 degrees. 22 deg at 8 psi sounds okay to me. Just do the converter when you can, cause you won't believe the difference .

 

[dentmasters01]

ok, your only prob is the stall and boost. I have the 70gtq, 85lber's, fast and a 3500 stall and first time the car ever went to the track this past weekend it went into the 10's. It IS a street car that I drive often. The notion that your's should only be "track" driven is far from true. Keep a good safe tune and turn the boost up! Who did your base gct file for your fast??

 

[Mad_Trbo]

This weekend coming up, I'll install the new converter..

Dent master, any serious work to the block or to the heads?

Additionally I continue to get mixed reviews on my converter. You have a 3500 and call it streetable, many say the 3200 I am planning on using is not streetable.

Just using logic, I am assuming the higher the stall the longer the car actually takes to engage al the power the motor is making to the driveline. This is what makes it work, the motor revs up in RPM's allowing the turbo to spool and then it engages transferring the power to the driveline and off into orbit...

 

[Mad_Trbo]

Jack of Cotton's performance.

 

[BOOSTEDGNs]

I run a 3600 stall art carr and it daily driven w/ pt52, the turbo you are running is my next 66 BB

up the stall,start crankin that boost sounds like 10's even with a halfarse tune

Alan

 

[salvageV6]

Your converter if it's a 3200 stall 10" Protorque lockup will be just fine on the street.

Thats what I use with my BB turbo.

Driven daily even throughout winter with snow tires.

You will notice a big difference, the power will be right there just like the stocker.

It will far outweigh the rpm changes in slow speed drivability.

Should work great with that turbo. Some get away with 3K stall with that turbo.

I'd be more worried about learning that Fast system thoroughly talking about streetability.

Get the logging going and make some safe runs.

 

[dentmasters01]

Mad trbo, cotton did the bottom end of my motor. Eagle crank, oliver rods, I already had steel caps and a girdle. The heads are some old stage 3's that came from eastern performance. Cotton has been helping me with my fast tunes as well. Good luck. Let us know how the stall changed things.

 

[Mad_Trbo]

As soon as I can make some time to change out the stall, I will get back to the board with some seat of the pants results.

Fortunately I have plenty of seat time with an AEM EMS, so conceptually I understand the XFI. It is actually a much cleaner application over AEM. I just need to now understand how parameter changes effect the performance of the motor. I have yet to make a good baseline pull. With the car being garaged over an hour and a half away, it doesn't make it simple.

I am trying to get rid of one the rides to make room @ the house.

Thanks agains for all the feedback, I have to tell you working on this board has been far easier than working on the various DSM boards. No snobs here, just folks sharing.

Are there any peeps from Ft Mill South CArolina?

 

[Mad_Trbo]

I finaly installed the pro torque converter along with a new transmission from CK Performance. What a f'ing job, I would love to know how most got to those two upper bolts on the case. They are a real pain in the a$$ and doing it by your self can be challenging. I would love to know how most jack the cars up?

As far as performance, I have the boost set @ 10lbs for now and the car is pulling strong. The boost comes on instantly just as all of you said it would. I can be rolling down the road say 10 - 15 miles per hour floor the car and the wheels light up. The torque is absolutely astonishing on this car, I can tell it will eventually eat my GSX's lunch.

Now to the suspension, steering and tuning. The car feels floaty at speed....


QA1's coil over and UMI adjustable upper and lower control arms.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Now to the suspension, steering and tuning. The car feels floaty at speed....


QA1's coil over and UMI adjustable upper and lower control arms.

All new body bushings and a Hrparts'n'Stuff rear sway bar...

Feels floaty up front or side to side?

I like how youve kept up with the thread, kind cool!
BW