Progressive Alky ????

[gbsean]

how much alky is used. i see on the pictures that it uses the radiator overflow do they make smaller bottles to put elsewhere or do you buy another smaller radiator overflow. or is the radiator over flow bottle divided.

 

[2QUIK6]

how much alky is used. i see on the pictures that it uses the radiator overflow do they make smaller bottles to put elsewhere or do you buy another smaller radiator overflow. or is the radiator over flow bottle divided.

The kits that use the radiator overflow come with a small bottle to replace the overflow with..it mounts in anywhere you want it, basically the best place is in the middle above the rad fans. But what I did since my car isn't driven in the rain there was no reason for my windshield wiper fuild...heck it still had remanents of the original fluid from the factory in it after 18 years!...so I ran a black hose to it from the radiator and made it my radiator overflow...also it already has a pickup tube to boot.
In a 1/4 mile pass, about 6-8 oz of alky are used running 24# boost.

 

[Roc87]

Here's my .02.
I had a non-progressive system, worked great with my PT51, had it come on at 13psi. So it was spraying the same from 13psi-25psi. Then NHRA lowered the roll bar rule and I decided to go faster . Swapped the 51 for a 61. on WOT runs, I had compressor surge, would surge at WOT, boost moving between 15 and 24psi. Had to turn down the alky to keep the spool going on the turbo, but then I got knock. With progressive it will only spray what's needed to keep the knock away, not drowing the engine before it gets to full boost.

...........I hope


GBsean, don't know exact HP figures, but when you hear about GN's running 11's, 10's, 9's, etc. It's not on pump gas alone. They are either using C16 or alky. Not sure if anyone has been in the 9's with alky yet. But there are plenty of 11's and 10's.

 

[Cablebandit]

i have the older non progressice SMC kit. I will say this, with the ls1 software, i am able to tune my a/f ratio at specific points. I get a nice rich spike when the alky comes in though you'd never know it in the car. Watching my a/f curve and leaning out the alky spike has brought my 60' times down. If you don't have the ability to edit your a/f curve at specific points in the fuel map, you are giving up some et with a non progressive system. i dunno what kind of software you guys have...i assume most dont do their own chips. In that case, I would want the progressive system.

 

[2QUIK6]

i have the older non progressice SMC kit. I will say this, with the ls1 software, i am able to tune my a/f ratio at specific points. I get a nice rich spike when the alky comes in though you'd never know it in the car. Watching my a/f curve and leaning out the alky spike has brought my 60' times down. If you don't have the ability to edit your a/f curve at specific points in the fuel map, you are giving up some et with a non progressive system. i dunno what kind of software you guys have...i assume most dont do their own chips. In that case, I would want the progressive system.

Unfortunately, there isn't as much to work with in the TR eprom as there is in the LS1 flash proms. We basically have PE fueling based on rpm table and a table based on TPS. AT WOT, the TPS is always 4.5v so that table is useless on spoolup, rpms help a little but is not very granular to fine tune by. 2 deminisional table and thats about it because the MAFs are maxed out at 255 by the time we get to about 16# of boost which you don't need alky for with that kind of boost in our motors. MAF table is useless at WOT.
And thats true that not many TR folks do their own programming of the eprom since its a little more difficult than just hooking up the laptop to the ALDL like it is in the LT1s and LS1s.

 

[salvageV6]

Staging the nozzles on my car results in a nice flat line on the dyno and incar wideband sensors.

Actually dips a little, by .2, at higher rpms which is okay with me.

Got the idea from one of the old timers, probably dead now.

You can also use an extra nozzle or more, triggered via a hobbs type switch and solenoid, to provide extra flow above your target boost should you ever overboost it could save your headgaskets or motor.

Lots of ways to spritz the alky.

 

[Cablebandit]

i'm thinking i just need a fire hose with one end stuck into a 55 gallon drum of alky!!!!

Razor, if you see this....email me a price on your pump and w/w tank for a ls1. Yours has more pressure so I may want to go that route soon. I ASSume i could fit it to my line with an adapter orsomething.
cablebandit@charter.net

 

[gbsean]

going to buy direct scan first...then buy the razors unit.....

 

[Revolution]

Red Regal T.... when i say its light years ...because it is. sure you may be able to run 26lbs of boost with No knock. But I dont think the first generation alky kit would have saved my engine like the progressive kit. You probably dont remember last year right after I installed by "super duper billet this billet that guaranteed to be able to handle 10 sec. pass P.O.S. rebuilt tranny" and on my 12.XX at 111 pass I broke the tranny... needless to say. All hell broke lose , boost spiked passed 28+, the vacuum line to the regulator shot of [Yes its tie-wrapped] and all could see in my rearview was beautiful BLACK smoke.... all becuz my PROGRESSIVE alky kit choked my engine with Massive amounts of alky. So instead of white head gasket smoke or worse my engine is fine and THAT is the reason I think Progressive Alky is better. I've seen fast cars with both but I prefer progressive enrichment. it just makes more sense.

Which kit do you run?

 

[6SENSE]

Which kit do you run?

He has Razor's kit (alkycontrol.com). I was there to witness that run he mentioned.

 

[salvageV6]

Does anyone elses kit burn black smoke when flooding the engine with alky.?

Just wondering. :smile:

 

[6SENSE]

Does anyone elses kit burn black smoke when flooding the engine with alky.?

Just wondering. :smile:

Salvage, I can be as silly as the next guy but for those who might not get it, the "black" smoke referred to of course isnt BLACK like the color of most of our cars here. He is talking about rich "black" exhaust, rather than "white" smoke from water/coolant out the tailpipe, or "grey" - oil, or "blue" - bad rings, yada yada, get it? Besides I along with our other brother and tons of others saw it better than he did in the driver's seat and I was the one reassuring him that from what I know and saw the exhaust that came out was a positive sign if anything. After inspecting the motor later and the fact that this was a year and a half ago or so I think the assumption was correct.
That incident didnt have to convince me. Im the reason that both of my brothers finally became alcoholics after seeing how Ive always experimented and beat up on my hotair car and have been playing with alky inj since I got into these cars. Both non progressive and progressive has saved my butt and added performance over the years. Now that the technology is out there I like the progressive because it makes sense to me. It accomplishes and then some what I thought would be a benefit for me when I was talking about the spray come in at different stages in the past. Then found out Julio was actually doing something about it when some of us were only discussing it.
If a large boost spike or something of the sort occurs like with my brother's car with the capability of the sureflow pump and the way the progressive works I would feel a bit better about the possible outcome. With my old diy setup, which I stood by and totaly believed in (and still do for what its worth), when it comes to that situation I dont see the same positive outcome because there is only one constant flow of alky.
Heck, when it comes to this whole progressive is it worth it thing, let me say Im as frugal as the next guy. I put as little money into my car as possible (partly because I dont have it) and lots of elbow grease instead. With the few ordinary mods I have, despite the low expectations of my critics here, Im going against the grain as is with a hotair car and succeeding. So I dont think my rep would be one to jump on the bandwagon. Like I said Julio's kit just made sense to me and so I went with it (besides, I got mine early on so there was no bandwagon at the time ).

 

[salvageV6]

Actually I don't get it, where did the black smoke come from?

Fuel , alky. ?

Since it's a linearly progressive kit how could it flow too much at high boost and not too much at lower boost to save the motor when the fuel didn't increase with the hose off the regulator?

Woulda been WAY rich down low as well one would think to make up for the missing gas at high boost.

These threads have to make some sense to sell stuff.

If you tune to be on the edge like most people trying to run the big number when the main fuel ie. gas is gone WOT so to will be the motor or perhaps only a headgasket if it's your lucky day.

Never seen alky. burn black smoke, maybe it's the lube in the methanol?

 

[6SENSE]

Ahh, very good, make things more intersting will you, hmm. Too much fun :biggrin: . I will think about it, has to be more to the explanation, but Im not losing any sleep over it, not that fun

Hmm, though without increase of fuel, relying purely on static fp and alky as fuel there is still no doubt in my mind that the alky injection did its job. Without alky.........boom! No way he makes it away without at least a blown headgasket. Now as far as progressive and its effectiveness here? I think that if NON-progressive, spraying at the same constant flow that may have been effective to suppress detonation at 22 or so psi, I believe the outcome would have also been.......boom!
Okay, what is the other factor that comes into play here? Ding Ding Ding, right, Ignition-spark. Whats to say that the massive amount of alky that the sureflo was probably pushing at the very high boost levels through a m15 nozzle didnt simply drown the spark? [Plus when he knew something went wrong and lifted, imagine all that wasnt burnt still in the cylinders].
I dont recall what he had plugs gapped at but I dont think that they were as tight as mine (.030") and definately not setup to handle how much alky + boost that was probably there. His tuning at the time I have to say [dont take it the wrong way little brother] may not have been the greatest, especially when it came to the alky which Im sure was dialed up more than it needed to be (I was running less fp and alky with my non-IC car and 25psi).
Anyway thats what came to mind and I think could be a realistic possiblity. The fuel (gas, alky..) just was not getting burned due to failure of the ignition system in the cylinders...due to the alky. He wasnt tuned to handle that much spraying and we know how easy it is to bog the motor at moderate boost just from having the alky turned up a tad too much, let alone when the very capable sureflo is allowed to go Coo koo.
I dont know, whatcha think? Like I said not going to lose any sleep over it, but always nice to know why things happen. I'll say it again though, without the alky, he might not be driving the car right now. It obviously played a part here. Ive seen the same exact thing happen before on a TR w/o alky, the outcome...not pretty at all, not at all.

 

[salvageV6]

Thanks for the answer.

No doubt the alky. helped.

I like to stage an extra nozzle just above my taget boost, M15, that might help to prevent a similar scenario on my car, it's easy to do with my setup.