R12 to 134 A/C conversion

[eagleguy]

For a system that works but is apparently low on freon (R12) due to a possible leak is it best to convert to 134? What is involved and what would the cost be?

 

[achalmersman]

No. Many people will write in and tell you that their 134a conversion cools just as good but unless they changed the condenser and evaporator for bigger more efficient units it doesnt. If you want to keep cooling capacity it had new at minimal expense find a shop that still has R12. Post where your located somebody can probably help. If your near the delmarva peninsula I have plenty of R12.

Oh, and find and fix the leak

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[eagleguy]

Clermont FL

 

[Nick Micale]

For a system that works but is apparently low on freon (R12) due to a possible leak is it best to convert to 134? What is involved and what would the cost be?

You have major considerations to contend with when going with 134a?

First, 123a is is 20% less efficient than R-12 which may not be an issue unless you are in Southern or desert temps.

Second, 134a has smaller molecules than R-12 will leak easier, and your original AC rubber hoses do not have a barrier liner like newer cars to prevent leaking over a short period of time.

And if you have an original compressor, the higher pressure needed with 134a will shortly kill it.

 

[eagleguy]

Well that's not good. Guess I will need to find a way to fix the old system and get some R12!

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

I use Enviro-Safe ES-12a which is a drop in replacement for R12. It is also more efficient then R12 and requires less to fill the system.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[eagleguy]

I use Enviro-Safe ES-12a which is a drop in replacement for R12. It is also more efficient then R12 and requires less to fill the system.

RemoveBeforeFlight

Where do you get it?

 

[achalmersman]

You can purchase it but as far as I know it is illegal to use in the United States in a r12 system

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[RmvBfrFlght]

Where do you get it?

I get it online here:

http://autorefrigerants.com/

You can purchase it but as far as I know it is illegal to use in the United States in a r12 system

It is legal to use in a system that has been converted to R134a. So install the low pressure adapter, wave a can of R134a over the system, and fill with ES-12a. Done.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[achalmersman]

That is illegal. Doubt anybody has been prosecuted but converting to 134a with the intention of converting to a hydrocarbon refrigerant is illegal.

Also, I don't consider throwing fittings on a conversion.....

And for those that don't know ES-12a is a mixture of propane and butane and is highly flammable.

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[RmvBfrFlght]

That is illegal. Doubt anybody has been prosecuted but converting to 134a with the intention of converting to a hydrocarbon refrigerant is illegal.

Also, I don't consider throwing fittings on a conversion.....

Quite the contrary, a permament installation of conversion fittings is "the conversion to R134a." And makes it a R134A system.

And for those that don't know ES-12a is a mixture of propane and butane and is highly flammable.

So are all other refrigerants as the system oil is highly flammable. Can also look at it this way, if so dangerous why it is allowed in R134a systems? And, the volume of hydrocarbons is so low that it is very difficult to obtain a flammable mixture. It just dilutes.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[achalmersman]

Crack a tank of 134a and hold a lighter to it. Do the same with ES-12a. But make sure your video taping so I can watch

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[RmvBfrFlght]

Crack a tank of 134a and hold a lighter to it. Do the same with ES-12a. But make sure your video taping so I can watch

Whatever...

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[achalmersman]

Thinking about my last comment it sounded a little dickish. Here's the way I see it. Whether you agree or not, it is not an EPA approved refrigerant for use in a r12 system. There are sythetic alternatives, there is still a lot of R12 out there, or you could convert to r134a correctly. I don't personally see the reason to use debatably dangerous and unapproved refrigerants

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[RmvBfrFlght]

Thinking about my last comment it sounded a little dickish. Here's the way I see it. Whether you agree or not, it is not an EPA approved refrigerant for use in a r12 system.

It is approved and legal. Once an R12 system has the adapter fittings, it is a R134 a system. You can legally fill it with ES-12a.

There are sythetic alternatives, there is still a lot of R12 out there, or you could convert to r134a correctly. I don't personally see the reason to use debatably dangerous and unapproved refrigerants

Again, it is an approved refrigerant. And it isn't any more dangerous then the R12 or R134a with the oil in the system.

Kinda' wonder what your agenda is? I have no financial interest in ES-12a, so why the hostility?

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[achalmersman]

I don't have an agenda. I'm out. I assume anybody that would like to educate themselves about the subject can look into for themselves. Specifically what the EPA says about it, the fines they incured, and the forced labeling of the words flammable. If you decide to go down this road PLEASE clearly mark the car so that some poor soul down the road doesn't contaminate a recovered tank of R12 or 134a

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[ITSAV6]

I converted my 1990 Mustang GT back in April. It had about 2 psi in the system. Used the Ester oil charge and 2.5 cans of 134. I replaced the cycling switch and turned the adj screw in it down 1/4 turn. In the high 90's outside it blows 38 to 42 deg temps with fan on high. Does about 50 to 60 idling.