I`m going to go for a start-up on new eng soon,I`m using a TA49 that is re-clocked to blow towards the front of car,I`m using an adaptor from the spearco IC kit on my intake.I want to re locate my TB to this spearco adapt,that would put a lot of pressure on the TB,was wondering if the stock waste gate in the turbo is good enough to relieve this positive pressure that now will be on the TB when I dont need it. Do I need a BOV or somthing like it ?? I plan on installing my spearco IC later after I get the bugs worked out of new eng/trans ,thinking of installing IC behind the radiator,where the 86/87 is located.Heard a lot of issues with the spearco kit ,and the stock location of the TB ,some say its in the tuning,others say problems are in the location of TB, If the problems are in the location of TB,,then I want to nip this problem in the bud and relocate TB now,but to bleed the pressure off the relocated TB might be a problem for me---Jack
Relocating T.B.,,will wastegate be enough ??
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I would recommend a BOV although I will get flamed for even mentioning the word. When I moved my TB my car made the same sound the 86-87 cars make when letting off the gas except it was much louder and lasted longer. I would recommend it because we have a lot longer plumbing so there's more compressed air. I never had any problems without the BOV but I just bought one to be safe.
The relocation is worth it just for the faster spoolup alone but it makes a big difference in throttle response. Boost comes in much sooner, it won't even feel like the same car.
The relocation is worth it just for the faster spoolup alone but it makes a big difference in throttle response. Boost comes in much sooner, it won't even feel like the same car.
TB relocation-- pictures???
COOL84---
do you by any chance have any pics of how you fastened the TB ??? If not, how bout a verbal one , would save me a lot of time,after all,you did all the R and D on this already so you you know the do`s and dont`s and how to`s------thanks,,Jack
COOL84---
do you by any chance have any pics of how you fastened the TB ??? If not, how bout a verbal one , would save me a lot of time,after all,you did all the R and D on this already so you you know the do`s and dont`s and how to`s------thanks,,Jack
I have pictures but have no way of posting them.
Basically, I bolted an inlet bell to the outlet of the TB and coupled it to the intake elbow with silicone intercooler hose. On the inlet side I used a silicone reducer hose to couple the intercooler piping to the inlet (where the MAF pipe used to go) of the TB. The MAF pipe goes directly to the turbo, you have to have an inlet bell on the turbo also. You'll need a longer throttle cable.
I'm running into my first problem with this setup. I need a 3.5" inlet bell/MAF pipe and there's not much clearance between the MAF pipe and TB but I think it's going to work. Probably won't be a problem for most people.
Basically, I bolted an inlet bell to the outlet of the TB and coupled it to the intake elbow with silicone intercooler hose. On the inlet side I used a silicone reducer hose to couple the intercooler piping to the inlet (where the MAF pipe used to go) of the TB. The MAF pipe goes directly to the turbo, you have to have an inlet bell on the turbo also. You'll need a longer throttle cable.
I'm running into my first problem with this setup. I need a 3.5" inlet bell/MAF pipe and there's not much clearance between the MAF pipe and TB but I think it's going to work. Probably won't be a problem for most people.
just to clarify one thing...your wastegate and a bov are in no way related...your wastegate bypasses exhaust on the hot side of your turbo,maintaining a preset boost level,while a blow off valve bypasses incoming air around your closed throttle body.
that being said,i don't think a bov is a bad idea,but the 87 guys say you don't need one
.i don't think i'd bother until you have the intercooler in with the tb relocated.then if you have the spare $$ go for it.
my opinion is that you should go ahead and mount the intercooler as a front mount as it is designed.if you want a stock location intercooler,just buy one that fits an 87 and adapt it.way less work and $$ than trying to make the spearco fit where it wasn't designed...
that being said,i don't think a bov is a bad idea,but the 87 guys say you don't need one
.i don't think i'd bother until you have the intercooler in with the tb relocated.then if you have the spare $$ go for it.my opinion is that you should go ahead and mount the intercooler as a front mount as it is designed.if you want a stock location intercooler,just buy one that fits an 87 and adapt it.way less work and $$ than trying to make the spearco fit where it wasn't designed...
re located TB---any problems w/the long piping
If I install my spearco ,front mount as designed,and re locate my TB to help with the lag/idle problems,seems to me that a larger turbo would be in order,due to the fact that much more piping is used in the stock spearco /hot air IC kit---I see that cool84 uses a te63,is that the reason for his larger turbo??? I`m using a ta49,is this too small,considering all the piping involved in a spearco IC?? Just thinkin about any CFM issues from all the piping ,must be 10/12feet here!! What are your thoughts on this. Will it all work out ok ,even with all the piping ? Who`s been there , done that before ??
If I install my spearco ,front mount as designed,and re locate my TB to help with the lag/idle problems,seems to me that a larger turbo would be in order,due to the fact that much more piping is used in the stock spearco /hot air IC kit---I see that cool84 uses a te63,is that the reason for his larger turbo??? I`m using a ta49,is this too small,considering all the piping involved in a spearco IC?? Just thinkin about any CFM issues from all the piping ,must be 10/12feet here!! What are your thoughts on this. Will it all work out ok ,even with all the piping ? Who`s been there , done that before ??
I know it's kind of hard to believe but the piping makes no difference in spool. The intercooler was the first mod I made and it made no difference in spool. Even when I went with the 3" plumbing and Ford FM it made no difference.
I personally really like the 49 for a daily driver. It will go deep into the 11s. I got the 64 after a nearly dead heat with a Viper GTS from a 40mph roll. Tuning became critical or it wouldn't spool until second gear. I had to loosen the convertor, and it just wasn't as much fun on the street as the 49. Half of my mods like the 4.1, extra compression, and good heads is an attempt to get the 64 to spool decently.
I personally really like the 49 for a daily driver. It will go deep into the 11s. I got the 64 after a nearly dead heat with a Viper GTS from a 40mph roll. Tuning became critical or it wouldn't spool until second gear. I had to loosen the convertor, and it just wasn't as much fun on the street as the 49. Half of my mods like the 4.1, extra compression, and good heads is an attempt to get the 64 to spool decently.
re locating TB---elbow to clear TB
I used the short air cleaner elbow that came stock on my 84tt ,connected to a bell reducer to the turbo to make that tight turn to miss the TB,looks like it`ll work, I`ll finish it up tommorrow and let you know how it worked,,real tight back there ,with TB relocated and all--by the way,what throttle cable are you using,stocker way too short, found an xtra in my junk pile thats 3" longer than stock,hope it works,find out tommorrow-------Jack
I used the short air cleaner elbow that came stock on my 84tt ,connected to a bell reducer to the turbo to make that tight turn to miss the TB,looks like it`ll work, I`ll finish it up tommorrow and let you know how it worked,,real tight back there ,with TB relocated and all--by the way,what throttle cable are you using,stocker way too short, found an xtra in my junk pile thats 3" longer than stock,hope it works,find out tommorrow-------Jack
TB Relocate---up date
I made an adapter to go from spearco intake adpt to the TB today--had to make an adapt w/ 130 degree bend w/a slight tilt upwards,going from a 2 1/4" pipe (spearco intake inlet) to a 2 1/2" (inside diam of TB) with a flange to bolt TB to,I slightly tilted the TB vaccum pod (top of TB) towards the front of engine,that gave me more room for the all the cables to miss the wiper arm---BTW,speaking of cables,that throttle cable I found in my garage that was 3" longer than the stocker,worked perfect-----now that I have it all connected,Ive found that the stock "accordian" plastic tube that goes from the TB to the MAF will work just fine,just clears the TPS due the fact that I tilted the TB---now I have to figure out how to connect the 2 1/ 4" spearco pipe to the 3" re located TB ,, do you have any ideas ?? see ya JACK
I made an adapter to go from spearco intake adpt to the TB today--had to make an adapt w/ 130 degree bend w/a slight tilt upwards,going from a 2 1/4" pipe (spearco intake inlet) to a 2 1/2" (inside diam of TB) with a flange to bolt TB to,I slightly tilted the TB vaccum pod (top of TB) towards the front of engine,that gave me more room for the all the cables to miss the wiper arm---BTW,speaking of cables,that throttle cable I found in my garage that was 3" longer than the stocker,worked perfect-----now that I have it all connected,Ive found that the stock "accordian" plastic tube that goes from the TB to the MAF will work just fine,just clears the TPS due the fact that I tilted the TB---now I have to figure out how to connect the 2 1/ 4" spearco pipe to the 3" re located TB ,, do you have any ideas ?? see ya JACK
Silicone reducer hose.
One thing I forgot is that I flipped my IAC around backwards just to make sure it didn't hit on the firewall. Glad to see it's almost there. Is the car running other than the relocation, in other words will you be able to do a back to back comparison?
One thing I forgot is that I flipped my IAC around backwards just to make sure it didn't hit on the firewall. Glad to see it's almost there. Is the car running other than the relocation, in other words will you be able to do a back to back comparison?
TB re location----
No,car has never been started/ran since I installed new 4.1L and TB relocation project,just wanted to do relocation now since its easy to get to places that are very hard to reach once I start installing turbo and stuff to go for a 1st time start up, real close now though----Jack
No,car has never been started/ran since I installed new 4.1L and TB relocation project,just wanted to do relocation now since its easy to get to places that are very hard to reach once I start installing turbo and stuff to go for a 1st time start up, real close now though----Jack
