Rings???

[STP]

What rings are you fast guys using? I need some advice on which to buy for a set of 4.020" Ross pistons. Billy A? Cal? Anyone ever run the Hellfire series SpeedPro makes? Thx Scott

 

[HighPSI]

I am just finishing up an aluminum motor with those rings. My own motor has Plain-Jane SpeedPro's in it.

 

[EightSecV6]

I use Speed Pro moly rings in all of our engines. You will need 4.025 rings, file them to fit.

 

[STP]

Thx guys. I was leaning towards the standard speedpro moly rings anyways. According to my Speedpro book, they don't make a Hellfire, for a 4.020 or 4.025. They skip from 4.015 to 4.035. Cal what was the bore on that alum engine you assembled?

Bill, thanks for the advice on the rings. I ordered my pistons 4.025 so I could hone my 4.020 to get the desired clearance. That is if the pistons mic out at 4.025 when they show up....I think Ross is recommending .005 wall clearance, but I have no idea if the slugs will mic at 4.025 or 4.020. I should have an answer to that tomorrow, then order some rings, and ship the pistons out for coating. Hopefully these Ross pistons will hold up better than the 5 J&E's that came apart on me late last year.

Thx Scott

 

[EightSecV6]

Originally posted by STP
Thx guys. I was leaning towards the standard speedpro moly rings anyways. According to my Speedpro book, they don't make a Hellfire, for a 4.020 or 4.025. They skip from 4.015 to 4.035. Cal what was the bore on that alum engine you assembled?

Bill, thanks for the advice on the rings. I ordered my pistons 4.025 so I could hone my 4.020 to get the desired clearance. That is if the pistons mic out at 4.025 when they show up....I think Ross is recommending .005 wall clearance, but I have no idea if the slugs will mic at 4.025 or 4.020. I should have an answer to that tomorrow, then order some rings, and ship the pistons out for coating. Hopefully these Ross pistons will hold up better than the 5 J&E's that came apart on me late last year.

Thx Scott

I use Ross pretty much exclusively but I have used JE and they are just as good in my opinion. They are made from the same material, just machined at 2 different places. You should probably opt for 4.030 rings if you are finish honing to 4.025

 

[STP]

Bear with me. I don't think the JE's are at fault. I do think that they were not the right piston for my application to begin with.
I bought the 87' I have now complete with the stage 2 in it. To my knowledge the engine was bought and assembled by Wagner (sp)??? Apparently, he stuffed 5 JE's and one Wiseco in this thing. The first time I had it apart I noticed that all 5 JE's had intake valve reliefs cut so deep that they actually went through the top of the piston into the ring land. Kind of like a gas port I guess. Initially I was worried and hindsight being 20/20 I should of replaced them then. But this engine had always run clean in the 10.70 range, and had been 3 135mph passes with the new combo the only time it's been to the track, so I decided to run them. Fired the car up one morning and immediately had to shut the key off. All 5 JE's broke right where the valve reliefs went through the top. The Wiseco could be run again. Don't know how long they had been broke. I'm wondering if these were even turbo application pistons. It's obvious they were run with big valved Stage 2 heads due to the size of the reliefs. Anyone ever seen Buick pistons as decribed? Ron T. are you out there?
I have some pictures but have no idea how to post them here...Scott

What caused them to break? I think the cuts in the top of the piston attracted heat and weakened them....In the 10.70 range they might have lived forever, but once I upped the power, they were the weak link. Opinions? BTW according to my machine shop piston to valve clearance wasn't an issue. I was a little concerned about that when I assembled it so I ran a thicker .057 Cometic h/g.

Or...Billy, it could be that solid roller you sold me, just made too much power for those JE's to handle. Yeah that's it....That's my story and I"m stickin to it : ) Stick a new cam in, and get 5 busted pistons!!!

 

[Lee Thompson]

ring end gap ?

Lets say @ 4.020 bore what ring gap do you FAST guys run? Top, second and oil ring.

 

[67turboCamaro]

I have a new set of J/E 4.025 rings for sale. I'll take $110 shipped for them. Let me know if your interested.

 

[James'6]

Bill, or Cal, or better yet both. I would like to hear your opinion of the gapless rings in the turbo motor. I have long thought of trying them. I have heard yes & no,but no real experience yet. Thanks, James

 

[Lee Thompson]

ring gap

Must be a closely guarded secret.

 

[EightSecV6]

Lee,
On a turbo V6 engine with a 4.020 bore using the plasma moly rings making 200hp/ cyl, I would set the top gap at .020 and the second at .024, this will provide the ability to make good power and prevent ring flutter. As far as the oil rings go, usually on that size bore the oil rings would have .020 which would be fine. Use standard tension rings unless you have a vacuum pump or a dry sump because on the intake stroke low tension rings will seep a little oil into the combustion chamber and contribute to detonation in a turbocharged or blown engine.You can tighten them up a little for a street engine. If you use this top secret information to make millions, please remember my cut!!!!

James,
I don't like gapless rings, they are a PITA to install and the benifit of "better sealing" does not outweigh the power you will lose using them.


Just my opinions

 

[Lee Thompson]

Thanks Bill

That is the specs, I will use.

 

[STP]

Me too Leo. Pistons came yesterday....Ross sent some file fit Childs and Albert rings, with what looks like a Hastings oil ring in the set. Guess I'll give them a shot. Scott

BTW the pistons mic'd out a 4.017. They sent 4.025 file fit..Boxing them up and shipping them out for coating as we speak.

 

[Ron Tarabori]

Scott, Need your address so I can send the bearings. As far as the rings go sounds like you've got all the advice you need. A good name ring, file fit and you should be good to go. I've been going to try the total seal rings for a while but never did. I've had a bunch of ASA and Busch motors here and have never seen one of them with a total seal ring package. Thats good enough for me. As far as the pistons, they were probably a 9 to l ASA piston. I'm not sure where your motor came from but if it was a
Carl Wegner motor and had different pistons in it , then someone else had it. He built nothing but top shelf motors and would never let a motor with two different kinds of pistons out the door.

 

[Lee Thompson]

Total Seal

Ron, Good call. I used to think highly of Total Seal until I used up my current set. I had a set of Total seal top ring in my eng. I do very little racing but do drive my car somewhat. Set @ .026 top ring when first fitted. Tore it down yeasterday as I suspected ring wear. .060 ring gap now. I am going to Speed Pro this time.

 

[James'6]

Thanks for reply Bill . Makes sense to me. James