spearco intercooler vs. conley perfomrance or other??

[fireberd350]

i found 2 84/5 GN intercooler setups...

one from SPEARCO for over $1200
one from CONLEY Performance for $850


any advice or experience with either and are there any other options besides a DIY job...??

 

[WFO]

well,i'd call conley's and make sure they actually have an intercooler kit,as i've never heard of one .it'd be nice to have another option if they do...

i know that kenne-bell had one in their catalog and the "poor man's gnx" car craft project car had one on it,but they never actually made one.the car craft thing was a one-off deal.i got that info from jim bell himself...

i have the spearco kit and it works fine.no added lag on a properly tuned car.

later,sean

 

[fireberd350]

yeh CONLEYs has one on their site but I should call and double check....i seen on the GP brd that SPEARCO had a special before 2003 for $850....anyone know is getting that price again is possible?

 

[TType84]

propane $300-600

just as good, half the price..

 

[fireberd350]

whats the deal with the propane...how long it last...how much a refill? i never herd nuthin about propane so fill me in or link me somewhere

 

[cool 84]

I don't know if propane is as good as an intercooler but I do know some people have gone 6 months without a refill and a refill is only ~$5. I'll probably get it but I'm waiting a while to make sure no one blows themselves up first .

 

[WFO]

Originally posted by TType84
propane $300-600

just as good, half the price..

i've got an idea...get it installed,tuned and get some timeslips.then pipe off about what's good and what isn't.

 

[85t-type]

From memory, I think the conley's one is a spearco.

 

[TType84]

Originally posted by WFO
i've got an idea...get it installed,tuned and get some timeslips.then pipe off about what's good and what isn't.

ok, lets see, in relation to hot-airs

1. we know intercoolers work.
2. we know the spearco doesnt work well unless you relocate the throttle body.
3. we know propane works.
4. we know propane leaves the tank at -60*f
5. we know nitrous acts as an intercooler, so a 50 shot ends up putting about 100 to the ground.

6. THESE CARS ARE NOT MAGIC, THEY DONT REQUIRE SPECIAL NON-INTERCOOLED BUICK ONLY KNOWLEDGE TO MAKE THEM WORK. an engine is a freaking engine, if it works on an intercooled car it WILL WORK on a non intercooled car. its not like because its an 84/85 buick its going to say "oh **** you know what, im gonna defy the laws of physics and not work"

for the rest of you guys who arent busy trying to prove me wrong:

propane is $300 for the www.importpoweronline.com kit, and $599 for Jay Carter's pro-pain www.onlygoodstuff.com
jay c is a good guy and i would really say get his kit, it has alot more adjustability and is overall a better kit.

refills are between $2.50 and $5.00 a tank, and most people have made over 60 passes at the track with cars much faster than ours. most of them have been able to run 25psi or more, the only problem i have heard is blowing off intercooler hoses. no one i know yet has put it on an intercooled car, so im buying it this saturday night, i guess i will be the first. my only problem is i cant get ahold of jay c to get my chip redone for bluetops, so, ill have the kit but i wont be able to use it until i get ahold of him cause i blew an o-ring on the intake adapter, and im not taking everything off the motor just to change the o-ring, until i have the injectors in and the new turbo on

but WFO, you know i must be wrong or something, cause we all know the 1984-1985 LM9 engine coded buicks dont follow the laws of physics, and what works on every other single turbocharged car, truck, and diesel engine, will not work. just because its a hotair, ya know.

how much money do you have into that 12.50 WFO? just wondering.

 

[cool 84]

I think we all know propane will work nicely but claiming it's better than an intercooler without any actual experience is probably what WFO was talking about. Maybe I'm wrong. IMO anything that has a cooling effect is going to be even more pronounced on a hotair. Then I've also head the propane is cold when leaving the tank (liquid to vapor) but not that cool by the time it leaves the nozzle into the motor.

 

[TType84]

i did i search on the word "better" in this thread..

i never said propane was better than an intercooler.

i said it was just as good.. most IC cars have a 8-10psi increase in boost with propane. i dont know if propane will give me an 8psi increase.. but we will see.

how much boost can you guys with spearcos run on 93 octane gas?

i used to run 17 all the time.. now i run 15 with the dp... i think the 2psi loss was related to restriction actually, kind of like how guys with HUGE flowing heads dont run as much boost because the engine takes the air way easier...

 

[WFO]

Originally posted by TType84
2. we know the spearco doesnt work well unless you relocate the throttle body.

once again,running your yapper about something you know nothing about.i suppose spearco kits add a bunch of lag too?

Originally posted by TType84
if it works on an intercooled car it WILL WORK on a non intercooled car.

oh yeah,i forgot that these cars are the same as 87's.i guess that's why there's so many guys running 11's on stock headers,downpipes and intakes.i never said it wouldn't work.i said that you have no data to back up your claims of what's"just as good".and you don't.

Originally posted by TType84
but WFO, you know i must be wrong or something, cause we all know the 1984-1985 LM9 engine coded buicks dont follow the laws of physics, and what works on every other single turbocharged car, truck, and diesel engine, will not work. just because its a hotair, ya know.

yeah,and you know what else works on all those vehicles?intercoolers.and you know what makes an intercooled setup even better?propane.i haven't seen any 87 guys removing their intercoolers cuz they use propane.know why?cuz you'd have to be pretty friggin stupid to think that propane is better than/just as good as an intercooler.

Originally posted by TType84
how much money do you have into that 12.50 WFO? just wondering.

dunno,nothing out of the ordinary.got my spearco kit for $850 years ago.used turbo $500.headers/dp ~$500.then the normal crap,injectors,filter,etc.still got your bitch ass covered by a second and 10 mph with a crappy 1.78 60',so once again why you running your suck?

 

[TType84]

once again,running your yapper about something you know nothing about.i suppose spearco kits add a bunch of lag too?

did i say lag? nope. i said they dont idle for ****, throttle response sucks. everyone with a spearco and a stock location throttle body has said this. everyone.

oh yeah,i forgot that these cars are the same as 87's.i guess that's why there's so many guys running 11's on stock headers,downpipes and intakes.i never said it wouldn't work.i said that you have no data to back up your claims of what's"just as good".and you don't.

didnt say they were the same, i said hotairs arent magic. you dont have to be some wizard to make it work. theories that work on other turbocharged engines still apply.

yeah,and you know what else works on all those vehicles?intercoolers.and you know what makes an intercooled setup even better?propane.i haven't seen any 87 guys removing their intercoolers cuz they use propane.know why?cuz you'd have to be pretty friggin stupid to think that propane is better than/just as good as an intercooler.

bruce removed his intercooler.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/nointercooler.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67608

he says better throttle response, better driveability.

but i suppose hes full of it too huh?


propane is easier to put on than an IC, and LOADS cheaper. way better bang for the buck. the point is we dont have them to begin with, they do.

comparing combos lets see..

you got your 12.5x@107.x 1.78 60ft
whats the combo?

i got a 13.6@98 on street tires no boost launch 1.90 60ft
car had.. unbolted cat, put a nut between cat and dp flange to crack it open half an inch. atr up pipe cuz my stock one cracked, jay carter chip with 17* timing, 17psi boost, home made cold air kit, electric fan, you know the basic stuff. what did you run when you had all of that?

remember i have a turbo and injectors on the way to go with that propane.. injectors $150, turbo $220.

total cost for my "mods"
injs $165 (150+ chip reburn for bluetops)
turbo $220
propane $400
k&n $0
elec fan $15
87 ecm $15
jc chip $50
cold air $14 (not on the car right now)
replacement up pipe $90
atr dp $130

thing is bro i have less than $5000 total investment in my car including the price of the car, the price of painting the car, the price of a set of GTA wheels, the ($1200) price of getting my tranny rebuilt, and the price of a new interior..

we'll see who goes faster for less money. if my car isnt as fast as yours, then its a tuning problem

 

[WFO]

Originally posted by TType84
did i say lag? nope. i said they dont idle for ****, throttle response sucks. everyone with a spearco and a stock location throttle body has said this. everyone.

lag was simply an example of the misinformed crap that people like you like to spout.i have a spearco.i have the stock tb location.my car idles great and my throttle response is on par with any other tr i've been around.

Originally posted by TType84
bruce removed his intercooler.
he says better throttle response, better driveability.
but i suppose hes full of it too huh?

bruce is a smart guy,but he's a tinkerer without timeslips.he has no way of backing up performance claims.kinda like you.besides the fact that he removed his intercooler as an experiment before he even bought propane.

Originally posted by TType84
you got your 12.5x@107.x 1.78 60ft
whats the combo?

not that it matters,but:

ta-60
42.5#'s
lt headers/dp
spearco
16 pos maxeffort

Originally posted by TType84
i got a 13.6@98 on street tires no boost launch 1.90 60ft
car had..

we'll stop right there.my car has never made a pass that slow.

Originally posted by TType84
we'll see who goes faster for less money. if my car isnt as fast as yours, then its a tuning problem

so you bought a beater and you get your parts at the junkyard.you want a cookie? i've heard all this bullsh!t before.go run the # then come talk...and when you're slow don't try to play the $$ card.it's played out.

 

[TType84]

oh because i restored my car and used jyp when possible im stupid??

if you have an 87 ecm it came from the junkyard most likely, so did your electric fan if you have one. blah blah

ok lets see.. IM SORRY MY CAR IS STOCK.. you know not all of us can just come out of the gates with a spearco a ta60 etc etc.

you have a big turbo. wow, im getting one in a week. you have big injectors, hey, next week, me too. you have a dp and headers.. well ive got a smaller dp and stock headers, so kudos for you there.

and you have a spearco, and im gonna have propane.

btw if a beater looks like this
http://home.attbi.com/~nbx23/claybar
then what do you have? a show car?

this is gonna be fun.

 

[BuickTV6]

Now boys please play nice!

By the way nick, your car looks awesome! I haven't talked to you in a long time man. Drop me a line sometime soon. highpsi85@hotmail.com. We got some catching up to do..

Later, Todd

 

[turbojustin]

Seriously Ttype84, you need to calm down. You definately seem way out of place talking smack about the Spearco I/C kit. I had one for three years and it was very impressive. There weren't problems with idle or driveability, but maybe I'm just lucky. For you to say everyone has the same problems with these I/Cs is ludicrous (and not the rapper). If you are going to talk crap, then maybe you should talk about something you have experience with like propane...oh wait, you don't have that either. "Just as good"...I don't know about that...go get some timeslips.


Anyway, your car looks very nice. Very impressive for only $5k
And yes, your car is definately quicker than mine....it is in pieces right now. So, don't go there.

"6. THESE CARS ARE NOT MAGIC, THEY DONT REQUIRE SPECIAL NON-INTERCOOLED BUICK ONLY KNOWLEDGE TO MAKE THEM WORK."

Wow, thanks for the insight. Are you sure?

 

[TType84]

dude wtf?

im not talking crap about the spearco.

I remember reading everyones complaints how they were not satisfied with it until they relocated the throttle body, because of the "horrible throttle response" and "bad idle". you know what

about the magic thing. yes i am sure, half the people on here however think hotairs are magic. when they put $1000 into their car and it still runs low 14s, and they cant figure out why. im not trying to make fun or talk sh!t about anyone. here is the deal.

hotair cars have engines right? ones with turbos, right?

as far as i know, propane has been tested and works great on:
toyota supras
subaru wrxs
toyota mr2s
mitsubishi 3000gts
86/87 buick TR's
countless different diesel engines..

so, i want to know why WFO thinks hotair buicks are SPECIAL. do those cars listed above just have an affinity for propane, but any other engine with a turbo does not?

just wondering.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Geez everybody calm down in here, TType84, that car is awesome, I didn't know it was yours, but I have pics of it up on my dorm wall lol. I never saw smack about the Spearco, you guys need to just apologize and go to the track and race 'em heads up. Everybody has opinions on what works and nobody is wrong or right for having one.

 

[Slo87Gn]

OK guys WFO you took what Ttype84 said way too personal. He was just trying to save the guy a little money by giving him another option. And it is true that many 84/85 TR owners have had problems with idle and/or throttle response. Not all but many have. But like all performance nuts we/they adapted and over cam the obstical.
So you can say there is no proof. If aperson says thier car runs better then to them it does only they know how thier car feels.

I and some friends have done some Dyno tests on hot air trs without either adder and with propain and with Spearco IC. Guess what.

The stock setup went 287 hp at 15 psi on 93 oct with a 93 Jay C chip. It pinged unfortunately at 16 psi in this situation not all do. But those were the results and average after 3 pulls.

We then installed the Jay C. Propane and were able to get 317 hp off the bat and run up to 17 psi no ping average t pulls with leaving the propane at the same setting. Gained only anout 5 hp more with 20 psi but it didn't ping an the turbo wasn't really built to flow there anyway.

Then we installed the spearco IC. It idle semi ok but at the initial hit of the throttle it hesitated a little no biggy but it did. we put a big shop fan in from of the IC to simulate air flow since it wouldn't be a valid test with no IC air flow and the fan isn't a little baby one it is a big sho air mover! the car pulled 325 hp at 17 psi. pinged with more boost.

So the Propane was the safer to run to protect the motor and the least expensive.

The combo of both went 331 but we figure we were pretty much peaked for that setups ability.

So there is one set of test results. I ran this kit onmy wrx and it has run in the 12s you wanna play with my 2.0 liter?