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starting a 3.8L Turbo build, need your help!

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DriftRat

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Aug 31, 2006
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in '89 GM had one of it's best ideas since 1969 when it wedged the strong, powerful, and light 3.8L Turbo engine from the Buick GN into the lighter, tigther f-body chassis. so, while attemting to turn my '92 Camaro into a mean touge, auto-x, and drift car, i've decided to junk the worthless TBI fed 305 i have now and replace it with one of these badass V6's.

basicly, what i want to know is what YOU would do to build one of these engines while looking for-
-350-400hp
-strong low end grunt
-a wicked-quick turbo spool
-snappy throttle response
any ideas, suggestions, and theories will be of great help.

also, does anyone know of a kit for individual throttle bodies, either fuel injected, or webber-carb style?

thanx,
chris
 
I have a rebuilt 85 (3000 mile) 20 bolt oil pan block (the better one) with arp headstuds, you could add a 204/214 total seal power cam and new HT-969 lifters or run the stock cam. $1400. plus shipping-motor is like brand new. drop it in your car add a TE-60- turbo or one of the newer GT turbos a 3000-3200 stall and your on your way to low 11s. PS. a typical rebuild costs between $1500-$3500.
 
what's the difference between the 85 engine and the 86-87? ive been looking for the later engine on suggestions.
 
only difference ive been able to find is deck height for the head gaskets... this true?
 
Are you looking for good mileage and efficiency?
If not, and you want to do drifting, get an Art Carr 16930 non lock torque converter, convert the tranny to non-lock (you just change a pump valve...10-15 minutes) and the engine will have NO boost lag. You punch it and the back end will kick out from under you..great for drifting. Felt like 100 hp difference between that and the stock converter.
As for the power goals. I would get a TE-44. It spools very fast by nature and is enough to run mid 11's. Add an RJC boost controller (50 bucks), and youll have MAJOR traction problems cause you'll be in the torque curve faster than you can blink between the turbo, TC and the boost controller.
Get an extender chip (100 bucks), some MSD 50lb injectors, an LS1 MAF and LS1 MAF Translator, and you'll be able to tune everything yourself. I cant imagine not having the extender.
Get a good 3" downpipe, and either a 3" test pipe with a dump, or a 3" cat and full catback. Hooker makes a really good catback with a non dump (i think) test pipe for under 300 from summitt.
Also get a good intercooler, or just get a duttweiler neck and have it welded on a stock IC. Stock pressure drop is 5-6psi, and the dutt neck will reduce that to about 3.
First things first- Get a scanmaster 2.1. Couple hundred bucks or less off ebay or the parts forums on here. A turbo buick without a good scan tool is worthless. Youll also need it to tune with that extender combo.
You also need to get a walbro 340 fuel pump and hotwire kit from racetronix. Its probably the nicest quality, best thought out design available. ($150)
Of course, replace and adjust as many sensors as you can. Replace the plugs and get good wires (MSD are awesome). You need a good foundation or all the mods in the world wont help you. Then you can get an alky kit in the end and crank the boost way up. But, with all those other parts, you'll easily have 350-400hp at 16psi and wont need it.
 
I hope you already have the exhaust figured out. That is going to be the hardest part of the project. TTA exhaust is very hard to find. Or custom. But that won't be cheap. Good Luck
 
DriftRat said:
what's the difference between the 85 engine and the 86-87? ive been looking for the later engine on suggestions.
Click to expand...

85 is a hot air turbo set-up (turbo sits right on top of the intake) and the 86-87's are intercooled. There are a lot more mods for the 86-87's available.
 
The 85 block can be very easily converted to 86/87, just change pulleys and add a oil return line which this engine already has. the main concern to some people is a 20 bolt oil pan as compared to a 14 bolt pan which is considered alittle weaker -this motor has the 20 bolt pan which makes it a 85 1/2 when gm started to convert the blocks over to 20 bolt the stronger one.i use one in my 84 gn with a 86/87 turbo setup. they run just as good if not better .,
 
The 1989 TTA aint no more lighter than a we-4/gn third gens are heavy and either weigh the same as gns or slightly less I had 92 z28 350ci t-tops it was heavier than my we-4.You will never have a snappy throttle response like a n/a small block with a turbo v6,don't expect right off idle, if you foot brake well thats a whole another story.There is no tbi setup i would suggest for you to find a donor car and get all the wiring and get a complete setup unless you know turbo buicks well you should find a complete donor vehicle.If you are trying to make about 350 hp have good response,quick spooling turbo i would stick with the stock turbo unit.
 
tranny

if he runs a manual trans, like he most likely will, doing drifting,,, he should'nt have a problem spooling a small turbo. a good bottom end, and a hell of a set of heads, on a stock or slightly bigger turbo etc, should do good for drifting. I just want to see how he keeps from going full 360 deg. when the turbo comes on :D
 
TURBOELKY said:
if he runs a manual trans, like he most likely will, doing drifting,,, he should'nt have a problem spooling a small turbo.
Click to expand...
yeah. i have a T-5 that is going to be backing this engine. i've actualy tried driving a turbo'd automatic car with what i do, and it was friggen worthless. the turbo and the tranny didnt' wanna work together, and completly bogged the hell out of the car around all the low-speed corners.

i was plannin on using a fancy ball-bearing turbo, a nice boost controler, super free-flowing exaust and lots of tuning to help it spool up quick.
as for the exaust, i have a 3in cat-delete and 3in pipes all the way out the back. all i need to find is headers, and i know people that can make me a nice 3in downpipe and everything to get back to my catback for a decent price.
i was hopin someone had seen a webber carb setup, or some type of individal throttle bodies, as one of those setups would make up for the loss of throttle response to a turbo car.

thanx for all the info guys, you've been a huge help so far.
 
I have always heard guys say a manual tranny just doesnt work well behind a turbo Buick motor. For the money, a mild n/a LS2 might be better option behind the f body with a manual tranny. GM has a successful drift GTO with that setup.

what do you guys think
 
Based on your goals of 350-400 hp, you really don't need to do that much.

The stock 86-87 motor was good for around 240 hp at 14-15 lbs of boost.

I estimate you could easily add another 60-80 horsepower by jacking the boost to 25 psi and adding a water-alcohol system.

You could leave the turbo as is, or upgrade to a 44 like Vader suggests, but you wouldn't need to go more than that. Way back my car dynoed at 380 wheel horsepower with a TE44, blue top injectors and alcohol injection. Every thing else on the motor was stock. A stock turbo or 44 will spool like mad anyway, so ball bearings aren't really needed.

Throw on an exhaust, high timing chip, a better intercooler, and you will easily be in the 350+ range. Done.
 
I haven't seen mentioned that they had to use 3.0L heads for the TTA motors due to fitment issues in the engine bay.Unless I missed that somewhere.
 
i'm not gonna go whith alcohol injection. if i were building a drag car, i most likly would, but with the way i run my car it would be impractical i think.
Way2QWK, do you know what the complaint was with using this motor with a manual trans? i couldn't see there being any problem. if it works fine with an auto, it should work with the flexability of a manual trans. anyone else heard of this?
about the heads, the stock 3.8 heads will fit w/o air conditioning. a/c isnt high on my priority list.
 
Manual will work fine for your purpose. Manuals stink for launching a turbo car at the strip, but your not doing that. If you have the RPMs up, you should have insta-power. I've had plenty of manual turbo cars with all sorts of combos.
 
i dont see much of a problem keeping the rpm's up. i have 3.73 gears right now, but i'll go to 4.11 if i have to. what's the ususal redline on a built 3.8? i know it should be reletivly low compared to the other guys i run with.
 
5200 with stock springs
5300-5500 with better springs.
6150++ with better heads and valve train.
I think Dusty Bradford is trying to hit 7600-7800 on a built engine with custom valve stuff. :eek:

Rods may be the weak link at some point. :confused:
 
if i could have a 6ooo-65oo redline w/o losing all of my bottom end pull (i don't need it to pull like a V8, but i wanna out do the 4 bangers i run with), that would be awesome.

does Dusty Bradford pust up here, where i could search for some of what he's doing?
 
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