Starting Problem...starter doesn't turn with key

[Jeff]

'87 GN, I've only had it a short time, 115K miles, all stock.
The problem is that the car won't start using the key in the ignition. It's done this periodically since I bought it, since then I have a brand new battery, remaned starter, and I've checked the resistance in the positive and negative cables, no problems. It used to only do this when it was warmed up, and would start when cooled off, and occasionally would start from a jump. Now it seems to not work at all.
The kicker is that this morning the starter wouldn't turn or click or anything with a brand new battery, so I jacked up the car, arced the solenoid, and it fired right up after barely a turnover, although the car had been sitting for a couple months.
My '74 Corvette used to do this, it turned out the seatbelt interlock was fried and prevented starting the car with the key.
I am completely confused, any suggestions?
Jeff

 

[Joe 1320]

You should check to see if voltage is being sent to the soleniod when the key is turned. If there is voltage present, the soleniod/starter is bad. If no voltage, then look to the ignition switch on the backside of the steering column.

 

[Steve Wood]

If the car has an alarm system, the problem may lie in it, as well.

 

[Red Regal T]

I think your problem is in the ignition switch. May be shorting. It is located on top of the steering column. Drop your column down and you might be able to see some arcing through the plastic. At any rate, I'd try replacing it. Bet you that's your problem.

 

[Turbo Brian]

It sounds like a bad solenoid or starter to me. Generally when a car will start cool but not hot, the solenoid is the problem or the starter is weak. If you have a warranty on the starter, trade it out for a new one.

One more place to check is the battery ground cable where it fastens under the turbo. Faulty ground = no start.

 

[Jeff]

Solenoid and starter are brand new remanufactured units...the car will not start with the key whether hot or cold right now. It WILL start when arcing across the solenoid so the starter and solenoid are fine.

Can anyone tell me if the factory security system includes a starter kill?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Turbo Brian]

Misunderstood the post. If it will not start with the key, I agree that it could be the ignition switch or switch adjustment, but I would not change the switch out until trying to rotate the collar on the lower portion of the steering column fully by hand and seeing if the car will start. If this is the case, then you need to adjust the back drive linkage for the locking steering column.

 

[salvageV6]

Okay how about doing this logically, especially since I'm sick and grumpier than Grumpy today.

Do what Joe suggested FIRST. "You should check to see if voltage is being sent to the soleniod when the key is turned. If there is voltage present, the soleniod/starter is bad. If no voltage, then look to the ignition switch on the backside of the steering column."

The Purple wire on the S terminal should be read to a good ground using a safely installed test lead or clip and all people away from the underside of the car since it could start when you turn the key to the START position for the test.

See if you get +12 volts at the purple wire first.

 

[salvageV6]

The factory system does intercept the purple wire with a relay switch for the starter kill feature, to answer your question completely.

 

[Jeff]

Found the problem...but no solution yet

While attempting to check the starter switch I found the source of the problem...someone has cut and spliced several wires in a couple different places under the dash. The reason is probably related to the fact that this car is a theft recovery. They did such a poor job twisting and taping the wires that it was causing the problem. I cut and re-stripped two of the wires that were poorly connected and the car starts like a champ with the key.

NOW, what I really need is a good electrical schematic so I can attempt to return this car to stock configuration.
Where's the best place to find one?

Thanks,
Jeff

Currently wondering if I should have let the insurance company have it...

 

[Red Regal T]

HEY !!!!!!!!! BAD SWITCH.........

 

[salvageV6]

Helms, factory service manual, about $75.

 

[Jeff]

Fixed the problem for good this time...

Bought Kirban's electrical book as a reference. I found that at some point in the past some idiot had wired a switch into the solenoid lead from the ignition switch. Not necessarily a problem, except they used 2 feet of 14 gauge wire and twisted the wires instead of soldering them. There was some other weird crap with the theft deterrent system as well, so I cut all the extra wires out and spliced in a 10 gauge wire where it had been, crimped, soldered, and shrink tubed it. Seems to have solved the problem permanently.
I also found that the positive battery cable had been in contact with the header a couple times. There was still some insulation left but I replaced it anyway. Upped it to 2 gauge and got it a little longer to route it away from the header.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Jeff