swaybar brackets keep pullin out...

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I'm on my 3 front sway bar now. It was stock, went to atr's 1 & 3/8ths front, then back to stock, and all three gave me some sort of problem. The stock bracket on the passenger side, broke at one of its bends. So I took that time to buy all new energy suspension brackets and endlinks and ATR bar. Installed em, and they worked fine, till the ES pass. side bracket broke. Again at the same spot. So I went back to stock, with another set of ES sway bar brackets again. This time the drivers side bracket pulled its front bolt right out of the frame. The pass side pulled a bolt out too. Why am I having these problems?? What the hell is is wrong with this car? I can already see I am going to have to fab a plate up, with a hole in it, and a good long nut tigged to the back of it. Ill have to drill my original holes a little bigger for this extended nut to fit into, and then just weld around the plate, to the frame... I can't seem to make this stupid front end work right. Are our frames THAT soft??? Can I have just one small area of my frame heat treated?

Anyone else have this problem?

 

[Gary Wells]

The front sway bar bolts are probably pulling out due to:
1) stripped (partially or otherwise) or weakened bolt hole thread(s).
2) Most people leave the front sway bar size stock & increase the rear to 1 3/8" .
3) There is barely enough clearance using the stock front sway bar & stock brackets between the radius ramp on the brackets & the bolt head hex angle at it's outermost point.
4) Going to a bigger size bolt will probably not do the trick as a bigger bolt dia will probably result in a bigger hex head size and will not leave enough clearance between the ramp up radius on the bracket & the outermost point on the hex head.
5) go back to stock on the front & get that to stay put before going any further and when you do go further, I would start by increasing the rear sway bar & replacing & or modifing other suspension components & staying away from increasing the size of the stock front sway bar size .
6) some people run the HRparts&Stuff rear bar & no front sway bar, but I would approach that theory slowly. I am sure that theory is great for drags. HTH

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I already did that. I was stock. Pulled a bolt, (forgot which side) and broke pass side mount in half. Went to all new ES hardware, and atr's 1&3/8ths front bar (the rear is already an atr 1&3/8ths) broke the pass side mount bracket in the exact same spot. at the bend. yanked it all, and rolled for a while with no front sway. car rode like a 77 cadillac with 500,000 miles on stock suspension. (ie like total crap). Put a stock bar back on, with brand new ES hardware again 3 days ago, and pulled the drivers side bolt out of the frame at the cruise yesterday.

I already know about the larger bolts having larger heads, and them not fitting, cuz of the radius there. I'm already pushing that limit with one of them, as the original bolt that pulled out on me, is now a slight bit bigger, as I had to re-tap that old hole to something bigger, as the original bolt will just slide up in there like a hotdog in a hallway. But luckily, there's still just enough room there to get my socket head on the bolt. Yesterday a stock bolt pulled. (looks sorta like an aftermarket header bolt)

This is going to continue, I already know this. I know, cuz A. None of my 3 bars ever just 'dropped' in. They all needed some sort of fanagaling/massaging. I don't know why, as everything's stock on my front end, and B, when I was re-tapping that last hole, it went in really easy. It's super soft steel for sure. I built the ladder/frame assembly for the 1999/2000 Jeep Grand Cherokees, and that steel was just plain old stamped mild steel as well. I'm assuming ours is too. So I'm just going to reinforce the entire area with a little "A team" type work.

I guess I'm here just to find out if anyone else has had this problem, and what they did to rectify it. Though, now that I think about it, somethings REALLY eating away at me..... Bodyshop guys, chime in at any time. While sitting and staring at my car yesterday at the cruise, I noticed that where the rocker panel meets the front fender on the drivers side, there's a dam near half inch gap there, and it seems to have been filled with some sort of filler before its repaint, as it's sorta cracked now, revealing the gap. (very unnoticable, but I'm very anal, so I look harder than the average person)
Whereas the passenger side rocker, meets its front fender with a clean, even, quarter inch gap. Unlike the drivers side. Hmmm messed up, uneven gap on one side, and no sway bar just drops in anymore... Is this the reason for the repaint? Is this frame bent? (ie was this car smacked pretty good in the drivers side front quarter, and repainted and sold?)

 

[shifty6]

front swaybar brackets

I'm on my 3 front sway bar now. It was stock, went to atr's 1 & 3/8ths front, then back to stock, and all three gave me some sort of problem. The stock bracket on the passenger side, broke at one of its bends. So I took that time to buy all new energy suspension brackets and endlinks and ATR bar. Installed em, and they worked fine, till the ES pass. side bracket broke. Again at the same spot. So I went back to stock, with another set of ES sway bar brackets again. This time the drivers side bracket pulled its front bolt right out of the frame. The pass side pulled a bolt out too. Why am I having these problems?? What the hell is is wrong with this car? I can already see I am going to have to fab a plate up, with a hole in it, and a good long nut tigged to the back of it. Ill have to drill my original holes a little bigger for this extended nut to fit into, and then just weld around the plate, to the frame... I can't seem to make this stupid front end work right. Are our frames THAT soft??? Can I have just one small area of my frame heat treated?

Anyone else have this problem?

when I went to the f-body 38mm hollow front bar I had to re-drill/enlarge both outer bracket holes to get them to fit correctly (mis alignement caused them to strip out). I re-tapped and used 7/16(I think) ALLEN HEAD bolts that resolved any headbolt/bracket clearence probs and they held the bar SOLID.

HTH

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

AHA, good idea. I will definitely try to incorporate that into my next design

 

[Tom Walker]

I, too, used the 7/16 retap on my f-body bar. Using fine thread is an industry trick to gain grip and fight being loosened by vibration. (7/16x20, grade 6)

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

fine grip does indeed resist loosening, but they're more fragile as well. plus, the threads arent as deep either, which i apparently need

so youre using allen heads too?

 

[Tom Walker]

not really. the fine thd. may have smaller thread, but surface feet is greater
when you have more threads per inch. in soft metal it bites more (better).

 

[Gary Wells]

Fine threads (ie. 7/16-20 unf-xx) are not more fragile, they have much higher resistance to pulling and / or stripping & therefore are considered to be stronger. Nothing of any major consequence on a fine thread as compared to a coarse thread is dimensionally different excepting the pitch (# of threads per inch) & maybe the root radius. Pitch dia. ( 6/16=.4375), major dia., minor dia., & in which direction the tolerances are applied are identical, excepting for the tolerances themselves. Finer threads will have less tolerance as a general rule. Nomial dimensions excluding the pitch (threads per inch) & probably the root radius are identical. HTH

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Like that geico caveman commercial says "Wait a minute,,, HUH??"

If finer threads arent more fragile, then Ill go with that. But, if finer threads are better, why arent ALL bolts fine thread then? What about wood screws. Wood's even softer than metal, why are those threads courser then? If the thread is more course, then the thread is going to be thicker. Isnt that what I want in my soft frame material? I see fine threads strip all the time, but Ive NEVER seen course threads strip. Why?

 

[Gary Wells]

Like that geico caveman commercial says "Wait a minute,,, HUH??"
If finer threads arent more fragile, then Ill go with that. But, if finer threads are better, why arent ALL bolts fine thread then? What about wood screws. Wood's even softer than metal, why are those threads courser then? If the thread is more course, then the thread is going to be thicker. Isnt that what I want in my soft frame material? I see fine threads strip all the time, but Ive NEVER seen course threads strip. Why?

--------------------------
IMHO:
All bolts aren't fine threaded because some threads don't need the superior strength offered by fine threads, cost of manufacturing probably also enters into the picture, but primarily usage defines the thread pitch & class. Wood screws aren't fine threaded because wood is not structurally strong enough to hold a fine thread pattern or pitch, and it would take you forever to screw it into the receptable, and wood screws are self threading.
Threads generally strip due to not starting the bolt into the threaded hole straight or applying too much pressure and overcoming the threads, wrong pitches, wrong diameters, etc.
Primarily, your threads stripped for the same reason as mine did, and many others in the same location. Soft frame (thread receptable) coarse thread, thickness or lack of it for a thread receptable (frame), & not enough room between hole to radius ramp, & difficulty of threading into a non-ninety degree hole with very thin metal. HTH

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I see. Well I'll try anything once lol. What's the worst that can happen. My bolt pulls out again? lol. Ill try the bigger allen head bolt with fine threads trick first. If not, I'm welding some **** in there, so It'll NEVER pull out again. Thanks for the suggestions. I doubt I would have found it out on my own. (though i do usually figure most crap out on my own.) Thanks guys. You rarely see this level of experience and intelligence on other boards.. (who woulda thought there'd be a thread expert on the board?)

 

[Gary Wells]

If my post sounded like I was trying to come off as a thread expert, I apologize. I wasn't, but I do have a good working knowledge of threaded fastners and their applications from almost 40 years of working primarily as an inspector in an aerospace environment. Good luck with the front sway bar stay down application.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

No need to apologize for having a wealth of information. Most people would have no clue, and would be good, knowing that they had no clue. (which is why most americans are just soo stupid these days) And to me, it looks like you're a thread expert lol. Though, I would hope, since you're in the aerospace field of work! lol. If there's something you know, and we don't, by all means put that crap out here, so that we all know. Never withold info that could hold my buick back. lol.