TA60, TA49 or stock with alchy..picking brains

[KEVINS]

Let me say that I am only picking your brains and I may/may not do any of this BUT just in case I do I want to know what you all feel is the best choice.

Once it warms up around here I will be getting alchy injection and running max boost for the combo (28psi or ??) so keep this in mind.

Unfortunatley I'm used to Mustangs, 5 pseeds, gears and N2O and this GN can be sluggish compared to my other cars.. So, I have been pondering a larger turbo than my stock one and I want to know (keeping costs reasonable) what you experienced people thought would have a more "explosive" feel on the street.

1. TA49 and stock converter with alchy
2. TA60 and 2800-3000 stall converter (lockup) with alchy
3. Stock turbo and stock converter with alchy

I have done a lot of reading over the last week and the TA60 will work better with a 3000 stall but the TA60 is suppose to feel sluggish on the street (yuck) but I don't know if it feels sluggish with the 3000 stall. I think it would...?
The TA49 (and TE44) are great with stock converters but in reality I think I should expect a little lag compared to my stock turbo since it's dialed in really good. If I have to get a converter I would prefer to get the largest turbo that would work good and the TA60 (over the TA49) woud be the biggest.

ET wise there is no comparison and the TA60 wins the majority of the time but I won't put a cage in my car so I am limited to 11.49 which all the turbos are capable of, yes even the stocker with alchy and a lot of boost.

Combo consist of Stock long block and you know the rest.

Let me know whatcha think!

ks

 

[Blazer406]

TE44 and an RJC boost controller. Your converter will be fine.... and you will have the potential to go 11.49 without breaking too much sweat...I wouldn't be suprised.... from everything I read.... if that 44 with the RJC.... wouldn't spool faster than the stocker....

 

[c&cgn]

If you run a PTE .63 housing on a 44 or 49 you will feel more lag compared to your stocker. If you can get a Garret housing (ie. have your stock one ported to work) you are not going to notice anything. In the 20 psi + range is where you will feel the difference compared to your stocker.

 

[KEVINS]

So do you think a 49/44 with stock converter will have better throttle response than a TA60 with a 3000 stall?

ks

 

[salvageV6]

IF you have to go into the tranny get a quality lockup converter to install too.

3000 stall and a good tune (quick spool code) and wastegate control on a TA60 should be just as good as the stocker or 44/49 with a D5.

I wouldn't sweat a PTE housing on it either at a true 3K stall.

My PTE51 which is similar to a 60 works fine on my GN with a single disk vigilante 0 pump 3K stall converter.

If you aren't rebuilding the tranny to hold the new power and it's an original higher mileage stocker just wait until a few higher boost passes and you HAVE to go into it for the 3K stall converter and rebuild.

But that would probably mean buying more than one turbo... :frown:

 

[DCVING 6]

Precision Turbo shows the 44 making 580 max HP, and the TA-60 making 570. If it were me, I would get the 44 with a 3000 stall. It should spool like an SOB, and supports just as much HP up top.

 

[KEVINS]

IF you have to go into the tranny get a quality lockup converter to install too.

3000 stall and a good tune (quick spool code) and wastegate control on a TA60 should be just as good as the stocker or 44/49 with a D5.

I wouldn't sweat a PTE housing on it either at a true 3K stall.

My PTE51 which is similar to a 60 works fine on my GN with a single disk vigilante 0 pump 3K stall converter.

If you aren't rebuilding the tranny to hold the new power and it's an original higher mileage stocker just wait until a few higher boost passes and you HAVE to go into it for the 3K stall converter and rebuild.

But that would probably mean buying more than one turbo... :frown:

The tranny was done several years ago so it will hold up to anything short of a T-brake launch.
Maybe the question should be which combo would hit 22psi the quickest since that's where the power seems to make things fun?

Part of me wants to build the most "practicle" power (TA60/converter) but then I'm worried this combo will be too boring/sluggish on the street (up to 45 mph) and it will need more "time" to really start to breath.

Like I said just thinking for now in case I choose to do something...

KS

 

[RUQWKNF]

Unfortunately that hp rating on the TE-44 vs TE-60 is a misprint that was never fixed. The true hp rating of the TE-44 is somewhere around 545-550 fwhp, and the TE-60 is 575-580 fwhp range. The TE-60 has a larger compressor wheel than what is used on the TE-44, that's the only difference. Same turbine wheel. Personally, if you know for a fact that you want to run high boost and alky, I would suggest a TE-44 with a 3200 flash stall converter, 9 or 9.5" lock up. When you say responsive on the street, it doesn't matter which turbo you choose, the torque converter is the part that will wake up the responsive on the street. (Unless you go with a dual bb cartridge equipped turbo) Especially if you go with a 9" or 9.5" converter and take all that weight off the flywheel. In some cases this could be as much as 20-25lbs of weight reduction from the flywheel, and trust me, this is huge. It makes this motor rev like an Indy motor.

Another item that will help with responsiveness would be one of RJCs billet stock diameter crank pulleys. You're going from the stock pulley that weighs 6lbs 2 oz without the crank fan, to a billet aluminum pulley that weighs 1 lb 10 ozs. This is a huge reduction is rotating weight on the crank, with no downsides. Another thing that will help with responsiveness (aka spool up from a dead stop punch) would be a good 3" stainless steel downpipe like the Terry Houston style. Anything you can do to help relieve back pressure will help the motor rev quicker and the turbo spool up quicker.
Depending on what your goals are, the TE-44 turbo is fully capable of pushing a full weight Turbo Regal into the mid to low 11's with high boost, traction and either race gas or alky. With the supporting mods of course.

HTH

Patrick

 

[salvageV6]

Tuned right I doubt you'd find a .250 second between the combos to 22psi.

Fun starts at 24-27 psi. where the TA60 will shine.

It shouldn't be sluggish at all on the street down low with a good converter.

If you don't have to pull/rebuild the tranny and converter why bother, just get a 49/44 and keep the stock D5 both work just fine with it for your goals of 22psi.

 

[KEVINS]

You misunderstand my "goal", my goal is not 22 psi. I simply was curious to see which combo got to 22psi quickest since that's where the power "starts" to be fun and IMO would identify the combo that would be most responsive at lower RPM/boost levels. Boost would be at least 26 psi with alchy or more depending on combo..

ks

 

[MoeJr]

Kevin you won't need 26-28 psi boost to go mid 11's. I personally like the TE44 with 3000 stall. It should spool just fine and I believe with the right tune you could go mid 11s on only 22 psi.

Years ago there was an article in the Buick newsletter the GSXtra. There was someone with an 87 T that ran 11.90s on stock turbo and 21 psi boost. I'll look it up and see if it gave the specifics on the car.

 

[KEVINS]

Years ago there was an article in the Buick newsletter the GSXtra. There was someone with an 87 T that ran 11.90s on stock turbo and 21 psi boost. I'll look it up and see if it gave the specifics on the car.

Don't bother looking it up. I've gone 12.1's @ 22psi with mine and I have two friends that have gone 11.7 @ 21psi 'T' and 11.8 @ 23psi 'GN' with stock turbos..

Besides I won't do anything until I get alchy on it.

I'm just bored today since the weather is horrible and it's keeping me inside and I'm going stir crazy..

ks

 

[MoeJr]

If you've gone 12.1 with yours at 22 psi I would think a TE44,3000 stall and alky would be alot quicker at that same 22 psi. If you can only go 11.49's before you need to install a cage then why run 28 psi boost when you can achieve that number with alot less? No sense risking blown head gaskets if you don't have to.

Just my .02

 

[KEVINS]

I was just looking to see if there was a combo that would spool faster than my stock turbo set up at lower rpm/boost levels so it would be funner on the streets.. no big deal..

ks

 

[Blazer406]

You get the 44.... with alky.. and a turbotweak chip... and the RJC boost controller... and a few other complementing parts... tuned out at 25-26 psi on pump gas and alky.... you won't ever look back.... and if it doesn't spool up quite as fast as you want.... change the converter.. like mentioned above... and it will spool plenty fast.

You will be able to roll into it at 60 mph.... and it will light up street tires...

I used to think I wanted a straight pump gas boost level and tune.... and then turn the alky kit on... flip the switch for the high boost seting... and go.... but once I ran the alky on the street.... I want it on kill all the time. You will too.