TH-400 with lock up

[N2BUICK]

Anybody running a TH-400 with the five disc lock,on a quicker type car? (over 800hp ??)
Problems? Good ,Bad ??

Thanks
Austin

 

[STP]

I think Rob Crisafulli was running one in their T last year in Bristol. Car ran well with the lockup...he told me the car had gone 141 but don't know if that was with the lockup or not...Drop him an email... rob_crisafulli@yahoo.com
HTH Scott

 

[lazaris]

I believe Lonnie was running a 5 disc lock up (I think it was on a 200r4) that made around 750rwp. If I remember he was having trouble burning up the disc's or not being able to hold the power. Maybe Lonnie could chime in.

 

[quickt]

I built a 4L60E that would burn up the clutches at 750 rwhp. Lock up 400s are ok. Spend your money on a good 400 converter and a lock-up will not be needed.

 

[Nojug]

I know Rob and his car he runs a Precision Multi disc lock up in his car and I bet he dosent get 15 passes on it before its back out of the car now I believe he is getting away from it and going to a Neal Chance. I dont think the lock up will handle the hp. FYI,
Jay

 

[STP]

He told me something along those lines Jay, but I didn't want to misquote him. Rob's a straight up guy, he'll tell you like it is....

 

[N2BUICK]

Thanks for the feed back.Looks like the lock up works but has some problems with higher hp cars.
Sure would be nice to find a convertor that does not show 1200 rpm slip on the big end! Went out and spent near four figures for one and still not the right one for me,after two reworks.
This lock up thing sounded like an answer....o well

Austin

 

[quickt]

I like the Neil Chance converter. You can dial it in the get the slip to a min with out sending the converter across the country.

Lonnie

 

[N2BUICK]

Lonnie
I only know what I read on the Turbo.com board Many have had lots of trouble with the Neal Chance unit.I am sure many use it and like it.
I was going to buy one,but heard the same stories of guys have to pull it out time after time to get the stall right.I think those guys were shiming the units, and not having to ship them???
Austin

 

[quickt]

I have installed and helped with many. Never one problem. You might remove a few times to get it fine tuned but the bottom line is it can be done with out shipping. Shimming will only cover 1000 rpm span. Most converters are built in the middle which would give you 500 in either direction. You might need to even change the pump to go outside that 1000 range. Bottom line is you have the converter in your hands to fine tune. No shipping, No waiting 2 or 3 weeks. Can be done in your garage in same day.

 

[STP]

Lonnie, how much does a Chance 400 converter run? Ballpark figure...I'm contemplating the Chance vs ATI...Scott

 

[quickt]

I sold my ATI for a NC converter for a 400 they are like 1880

 

[summit]

Still waiting for your call, Austin. We have been having very good luck with PTC units. Using them on my 1100 HP buick as well as 1600 hp mustangs. Very efficient and have picked up MPH on every car we switched to. I have been looking into lockups, but not the Vigilantes. Something more race designed. API and trans specialties both make race specific units at a cost of $5000+. getting to be necessary for big thumper turbos and small v-6 motors. really for $1800 versus $800 I don't mind shipping a convertor back once or twice to get restalled. i'm not smart enough or anal enough to restall convertors a few hundred rpm at the track to need to buy the bolt together unit.
Greg Kring

 

[quickt]

Originally posted by summit
Still waiting for your call, Austin. We have been having very good luck with PTC units

Kenny at PTC is a great guy and builds good converters. Again if you have 2 weeks for each stall change and in some cases $300 a pop plus shipping Kenny can make you a great converter that can handle the power. You could always just buy 2 and then there would be no wait. Thats what we did on the big block car. Then again you could get it right the first time and not need a stall change at all. When you spend the kind of money it takes to build a Stage Motor what the hell is $800 more dollars for something that takes as much or more abuse than your engine does and a part that you cant run without. IMO there is nothing more agravating than working on a car that has converter stall issues. There are many ways to go not sure whats the best but with the bolt together you have more control of down time.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by STP
Lonnie, how much does a Chance 400 converter run? Ballpark figure...I'm contemplating the Chance vs ATI...Scott

E-mail me if you want to hear my story about Neil Chance. I know of another guy on here with the same deal.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by quickt
Shimming will only cover 1000 rpm span. Most converters are built in the middle which would give you 500 in either direction. You might need to even change the pump to go outside that 1000 range. Bottom line is you have the converter in your hands to fine tune. No shipping, No waiting 2 or 3 weeks. Can be done in your garage in same day.

You can get about 200-300 with shims that is it. You cannot change the pump without re-sending the convertor back to be balanced, they are balanced as a unit.


Waiting 2 to 3 weeks? I waited about 2 monthes only to get my money refunded after desputing credit card charges and loose out on 1/2 of my racing season. Yes, I have a little fire under my a$$. Most expensive convertor I ever bought and the biggest nighmare I have dealt with.

P.S. after they changed my pump the convertor height was wrong... I wonder how much detail they really pay to the construction of their pieces. Neil Chance himself just passed the buck off to on of the guys in the back when I asked to talk to "the man" himself.

 

[ChrisCairns]

I'm the other guy to whom Ted is referring. Both Ted and I bought a Chance converter around the same time and received a refund around the same time.

We had similar problems....i.e. Marty Chance not only couldn't get the stall right...he wasn't even in the ballpark. Mine originally stalled at 2400 at zero boost. I personally had my tranny in and out 5 times. Marty sent me a new stator and new shims.....I only got a few hundred more rpm out of these changes and the highest stall was about 2800 if I remember correctly.

During the time I was having problems I talked to Dave Fiscus about his....he got his through a vendor instead of going through NC itself. And he was/is super happy with his and it stalled smack dab where he wanted it the very first try. I recall 3900 at 1 psi.

I believe that was the problem. Marty didn't know how to build what we needed and we didn't know enough about converters to order by "tech" knowledge.

This is going to sound weird but I still believe a NC converter is the way to go....but if there is another round of me trying one (gotta dig up $1900 again...lol) I'll go through the same vendor that Dave Fiscus ordered through and then that particular vendor can order it by using "converter technical language."

 

[quickt]

This is going to sound weird but I still believe a NC converter is the way to go....but if there is another round of me trying one (gotta dig up $1900 again...lol) I'll go through the same vendor that Dave Fiscus ordered through and then that particular vendor can order it by using "converter technical language." [/B]

Myself and Kip Asplund hooked Dave Fiscus up with the NC converter.

Try to get a refund from any other converter manufacture when they make the mistake example ATI or PTC been down that road with both companys. The pump can be changed without a rebalance as we have done before. Depending on where your stall is with your pump you should be able to go 500 in either direction although not always the case. Shame yours did not work out. Again nothing sucks worse than converter stall problems.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by quickt
Myself and Kip Asplund hooked Dave Fiscus up with the NC converter.

Try to get a refund from any other converter manufacture when they make the mistake example ATI or PTC been down that road with both companys. The pump can be changed without a rebalance as we have done before. Depending on where your stall is with your pump you should be able to go 500 in either direction although not always the case. Shame yours did not work out. Again nothing sucks worse than converter stall problems.

The reason I say this is because I offered to pay him for the new pump and for him to ship it (to save time on having to ship the convertor to him and then back) and that is what Marty told me. Yes you would think the pieces could be individually balanced. I really believe he refunded the money because he was ashamed that he had the convertor back for the 4th time and the second time for the same problem(installed height).

I do not believe that Neil Chance has some high tech secret that nobody else can figure out. It really comes down to having a torque convertor efficient and most companies can do this. Durability is another factor that I think the Chance convertor has. I do not remember what pump I had, but Chris's convertor and mine were the same. Chris got the honor to try out a "experimental" stator, which also did not work. You would think that with both of us ordering convertors they would have in thier files the "winning combination", that would have put them at least at first base.

P.S. The bolt together convertor is a piece of cake to work on.


Lonnie, if you have ever seen a grown man cry under his car, that was me. I WISH I had this info available last spring. Then again we probably have all cried under our cars too much.

 

[ChrisCairns]

Originally posted by quickt
Myself and Kip Asplund hooked Dave Fiscus up with the NC converter.

Yep. I didn't want to say it outloud.

If I ever get the bug to try another one I'll be going through you guys. Wish I had the first time around.

And yes, I was impressed that we DID in fact get a refund.